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Thread: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional [W:167:202:330]

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    A human rights violation, by it's very nature, affects all of humanity.
    Banning abortions is a human rights violation.

    Allowing abortions is a human rights violation.


    Which do we choose, then?
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    1.)Again, I see it as a form of acceptance. Not, obviously, full acceptance - but at the same time, you're willing to accept something you disagree with is going on to the point that you are not committing illegal acts to change it.

    2.)I meant that some morals and opinions were considered to be rights, then codified into laws.

    They're interrelated, but not the same thing, I suppose...

    3.)That's what I'm saying, though...facts are unchanging, but the interpretation of said facts - which is the only thing most people see - can change.

    4.)Morals and opinions are subjective. Some of those were thrashed out into rights.
    Rights are subjective, until codified into laws.
    Interpretations of laws are subjective, until ruled on by courts.
    Interpretations of rulings are subjective, until more rulings further clarify.

    Everything is subjective, really - we've just formed a framework of rules, laws, and precedent that removes some of that subjectivity. Remove the framework...and everything is subjective again.

    5.) I suppose it is more than 2 sides - but those two sides are the vocal minority who currently are shown as the examples of what the discussion is.

    The middle is really more of a motley collection of sides, none really disagreeing with the other.

    But forget sides - IMO, none of the available options are acceptable.
    The option of allowing abortions, even if only some, causes a human (or some other word/phrase that means "will be human but isn't yet") to die.

    Fully or partially disallowing abortions takes rights away from a human, possibly even the right to life - assuming we're talking a life-threatening pregnancy here.

    I do not accept any of these options.

    6.)But I do accept that we must choose one, for the moment.


    7.)Going a bit further, IMO any human decision making is guaranteed to be biased in some way - depending on what the bias is, I agree or disagree with the decision. As everyone does.....

    We've already changed the rights and constitution multiple times. Our interpretation of same, even. Some agree with these changes, others do not.

    Possibly.
    1.) but that doesnt have anything to do with the meaning of acceptance
    2.) this is 100% true, SOME are and do happen to line up
    3.) but not impact the actual facts
    4.) agreed, the end result is removing the subjectivity
    5.) i disagree, just look that he abortion here, the most people that disagree are the ones in the middle because SOME magically think that their middle is good and the other middle is evil, its hilarious.
    6.) I also thing one must be chooses and RvW isnt that bad, it is in the middle more closely than the extremes SOME people want.
    7.) i got no problem with that but thats the basis and where we have to start, some just magically jump to the end and make up thier own rules trying to abandon the framework you were previously talking about.
    8.) yes "possibly" you were told that
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Banning abortions is a human rights violation.

    Allowing abortions is a human rights violation.


    Which do we choose, then?
    100% correct

    this is the reality and facts some choose to ignore or spin over
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    actually we have covered before how murder is not solely a legal term. Hardly surprising that you would continue ignoring that though
    And none of the other definitions fit abortion. That has been explained to you before.

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Banning abortions is a human rights violation.

    Allowing abortions is a human rights violation.


    Which do we choose, then?
    While I don't think that banning abortion is the best way to go, I also don't beleive doing so is a human rights violation. Banning abortion does not result in death, pregnancy is avoidable, and having control over one's own body does not necessarily mean you should have the right to kill your offspring.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    While I don't think that banning abortion is the best way to go, I also don't beleive doing so is a human rights violation. Banning abortion does not result in death, pregnancy is avoidable, and having control over one's own body does not necessarily mean you should have the right to kill your offspring.
    Banning abortion MIGHT result in death, if its a matter of "abort or you will die", which happens occasionally.
    Pregnancy is avoidable unless the woman was raped.
    Having control over ones body DOES mean that you have the right to do ANYTHING with it, including removal of something you don't want on/in it.
    Thus, banning abortions, in whole or in part, is a human rights violation.

    This is just my opinion, of course.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Banning abortion MIGHT result in death, if its a matter of "abort or you will die", which happens occasionally.
    Pregnancy is avoidable unless the woman was raped.
    I beleive any control of abortion should include exceptions for rape and health of the mother under the philosophy of Self Defense. Self Defense is the only time I believe that killing another human is acceptable.

    Having control over ones body DOES mean that you have the right to do ANYTHING with it, including removal of something you don't want on/in it.
    I disagree. I agree that you have control over your own body up to the point where your actions put another human life in danger.

    Thus, banning abortions, in whole or in part, is a human rights violation.
    I disagree, unless it's in self defense.

    This is just my opinion, of course.
    Of course.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) but that doesnt have anything to do with the meaning of acceptance
    I think we're either using different definitions of "accept", or we just have different takes on what it means.
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    2.) this is 100% true, SOME are and do happen to line up
    excellent.
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    3.) but not impact the actual facts
    Even if you gave people the bald facts, they would apply their own interpretations and still disagree.
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    4.) agreed, the end result is removing the subjectivity
    You can't though. Subjectivity is an inherent part of being human....
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    5.) i disagree, just look that he abortion here, the most people that disagree are the ones in the middle because SOME magically think that their middle is good and the other middle is evil, its hilarious.
    Then they are actually thinking that the "other middle" is the fringe segment - for some, there is no middle ground except agreement with them.
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    6.) I also thing one must be chooses and RvW isnt that bad, it is in the middle more closely than the extremes SOME people want.
    I don't know much about RvW, really - apart from it being current law...and me not knowing exactly what that means...but I tend to agree that it's one of the best options out of a barrel of bad choices.
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    7.) i got no problem with that but thats the basis and where we have to start, some just magically jump to the end and make up thier own rules trying to abandon the framework you were previously talking about.
    You can't get everyone to agree, some will do so out of contrariness.
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    8.) yes "possibly" you were told that
    I was actually referring to other stuff. Plus back patting hurts my shoulder.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  9. #409
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Apparently you need some type of reference material to understand this. Try again? It's hard to dumb it down further.
    Dumb it down? No, I usually refuse to do that. As a fellow Homo sapiens you should have certain basic capacity for reason even if it hasn't been employed recently.

    Again, at its most basic level, there is no right violated when the state protects the right to life of all living humans. To claim otherwise remains an exercise in absurdity and futility.


    Clearly, the fetus does not have an equal right to life with individuals that are already born.
    Clearly? Hardly. All humans have a natural right to life and all humans are created equal.

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    1.)While I don't think that banning abortion is the best way to go
    I also don't beleive doing so is a human rights violation.
    3.) Banning abortion does not result in death
    4.), pregnancy is avoidable
    5.) and having control over one's own body does not necessarily mean you should have the right to kill your offspring.
    1.) its horrible way to go IMO
    2.) Your beliefs are proven wrong by facts
    3.) yes it can
    4.) so is rape, it being avoidable is meaningless
    5.) good thing thats not was being discussed

    bannign aboriton is a clear rights violation, this fact wont change, you dont have the right to force somebody to risk their life against their will
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