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Thread: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional [W:167:202:330]

  1. #251
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Women have equal rights, the unborn do not. Re: your second point....no one is forcing you to associate with anyone...if you dont want to have an abortion, or dont want to associate with anyone that had one...then dont.
    But someone is forcing me to have it in my community. If I and the majority in the community don't want it, the tyranny of the minority takes hold.

    Correct, there is no right to offend but there is no right prohibiting it either. Nor is there any Constitutional protection against it. How are women who have abortions a 'black spot on society?' What have their actions wrought in society? And how do you even know if/who have had abortions in your community? If you have to ask, research, look for statistics...and that's the ONLY way you know...then apparently there are no other repercussions to your life.
    Actually, liberals have given themselves the right to prohibit it, in a slew of ways. How? They are the takers of life. the relativistic value on life which abortion has helped create have too many repercussions to count. Abortion clinics don't stay open in communities where no abortions are had. So, no looking up stats isn't the only way. Again the repercussions are countless.

    Sorry, what social issues are 'localized?' We are a diverse society, that is what gives our nation strength. That is what built our nation. So please: tell me what social issues we localize in our society? Honestly, this is the first I've ever heard of such a thing.
    Don't be sorry, I'm here to help.... Honestly, you need to go back and read what I wrote. I said, that social issues NEED to be localized. But, since I'm feeling you get a little uppity, let me just give a few, 1. As I had said, Dry counties, heard of them? No? travel more. 2. Legalized Weed. Heard of it? Watch more TV. 3 Gay marriage? Eh? Did you not hear about that one either? So you'll excuse me if I get a good laugh at what I perceive to be the beginnings of a condescending attitude.

    Well how would you even know about it? It does not affect you and you would have to go out of your way to learn about it. If a CHILD goes missing or is abused, the community knows...it misses the child, it sees a child in pain, etc etc etc. How are abortions affecting you?
    I answered this above.

    Yes, I know.
    I don't think you do.

    What? I went to college in PA and they were fighting over dry counties and getting rid of them. And people here in WA St just recently overturned the control of "state liquor stores.' But drinking alcohol is not a Constitutional right. The right to life, libery, and the pursuit of happiness...for those already born....is.
    Right, but the decision is up to them. I mean, HELLO-OOOOO!?!? The Point? See? I knew you didn't know... and that last bit isn't written down anywhere, it is a self serving determination you've added based on the relativistic twaddle you're convinced of... (oh, now you've heard of dry counties, huh...)

    Nope, it's called FREEDOM. People are free to do what they want within the confines of the law, most importantly not infringing on the rights of others. YOUR beliefs offend many....should someone be able to tell you to move somewhere else because they dont like what you believe? If you would like to live somewhere where the govt has control over people's PERSONAL LIVES....there are a few other countries you can check out.
    Nope, its called imposing your beliefs of what are acceptable actions onto others who don't share those beliefs.. That is not freedom. Right, not infringing on others, which you're an advocate for. Having beliefs is one thing, acting on them is the other, that's why you can be a great advocate for the slaughtering of the unborn all you want, hell you can even advocate mass infanticide. but you can't act on the latter and I am merely offering a compromise on the former, you can have an abortion a day until the end of time, just not in my or in others of a like mind's community.

    And as far as that silly last statement is concerned, I think I'll stay right where I'm at, but you can go abroad, take a few lives over the pond if you want, hey, knock yourself out. But if you don't think the government is controlling your life my dear, you really are in trouble...

  2. #252
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Nope, its called imposing your beliefs of what are acceptable actions onto others who don't share those beliefs.. That is not freedom. Right, not infringing on others, which you're an advocate for. Having beliefs is one thing, acting on them is the other, that's why you can be a great advocate for the slaughtering of the unborn all you want, hell you can even advocate mass infanticide. but you can't act on the latter and I am merely offering a compromise on the former, you can have an abortion a day until the end of time, just not in my or in others of a like mind's community.

    .

    WOW.....you just made the EXACT same argument as PRO-CHOICE. YOU are FORCING (or trying to) your beliefs on another. Except that it affects that OTHER's life and body, while it affects YOU not at all. And you dont see the complete hypocrisy in your statements?

    Re: your tyranny of the minority and keeping the things you dont believe in out of your 'community,' I have never seen a modern-day American have the nerve to put such a thing in writing unless they were very very racist (not saying you are racist). You dont seem to understand the Constitution at all and how the minority is PROTECTED from the majority by anything that is covered in the Constitution, and that supersedes the states and some 'community' that you are imagining.

    That does not exist in this country unless you are in some religious cult or commune or something. And you are free to live in such if you choose. You may not impose your personal beliefs on the general population. They tried to do that during segregation, remember?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  3. #253
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    WOW.....you just made the EXACT same argument as PRO-CHOICE. YOU are FORCING (or trying to) your beliefs on another. Except that it affects that OTHER's life and body, while it affects YOU not at all. And you dont see the complete hypocrisy in your statements?

    Re: your tyranny of the minority and keeping the things you dont believe in out of your 'community,' I have never seen a modern-day American have the nerve to put such a thing in writing unless they were very very racist (not saying you are racist). You dont seem to understand the Constitution at all and how the minority is PROTECTED from the majority by anything that is covered in the Constitution, and that supersedes the states and some 'community' that you are imagining.

    That does not exist in this country unless you are in some religious cult or commune or something. And you are free to live in such if you choose. You may not impose your personal beliefs on the general population. They tried to do that during segregation, remember?
    Allow me to ask a simple question. Except in instances of forced sex (rape), who is responsible for the act? The male and female involved. Both have a duty to use proper precautions, and be ready for the possible unwanted outcome (obviously if you're having an abortion, you were not ready to be a parent) thus the reality is that the "Choice" was made prior to intercourse.

    Furthermore, once conception has occurred, you've created a unique individual life. Yes, I AGREE, it IS HER BODY. However, the point of "choice" passed the moment intercourse was completed. That is the part we on the pro-life side find so disturbing. That responsible behavior is not only scoffed at, but the ending of a human life is seen as a sacred right.

    It's not a matter of wanting to curtail women's reproductive rights, it's a matter of saying "Hey now, you can screw till the cows come home, we really in the end don't care, but if you aren't ready to deal with the consequences... don't tell me killing your baby is a moral, just or right choice."

    Besides, Abortion denies men their reproductive rights, so it should be struck down on those grounds.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/aborti...ve-rights.html
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  4. #254
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    1.)Allow me to ask a simple question. Except in instances of forced sex (rape), who is responsible for the act? The male and female involved. Both have a duty to use proper precautions, and be ready for the possible unwanted outcome (obviously if you're having an abortion, you were not ready to be a parent) thus the reality is that the "Choice" was made prior to intercourse.

    2.) Furthermore, once conception has occurred, you've created a unique individual life. Yes, I AGREE, it IS HER BODY. However, the point of "choice" passed the moment intercourse was completed.
    3.) That is the part we on the pro-life side find so disturbing.

    4.) That responsible behavior is not only scoffed at,

    5.) but the ending of a human life is seen as a sacred right.

    6.) It's not a matter of wanting to curtail women's reproductive rights, it's a matter of saying "Hey now, you can screw till the cows come home, we really in the end don't care, but if you aren't ready to deal with the consequences... don't tell me killing your baby is a moral, just or right choice."

    7.) Besides, Abortion denies men their reproductive rights, so it should be struck down on those grounds.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/aborti...ve-rights.html
    1.) 100% false theres not one fact to back this fallacy up. Choice continues forever YOU dont get to say when it ends.
    Consent to sex will never be consent to giving birth this fact will never change. Choosing to have sex will never be choosing to give birth, this fact will also never change.

    2.) choice factually has not passed there is nothing that will ever make your statement true

    3.) dont group yourself with others because they all dont think like you thats for sure. If you find it disturbing that people understand facts thats your issue.

    4.) because its nothing more than your opinion and they way you state your opinion is factually false, thats why its laughed at. WHen a person says something that is factually false or is opinion being pushed at fact it often get laughed at.

    its hilarious that you think your opinions and subjective morals should be forced on others and others morals are meanings and should be ignored.

    5.) this dramatic hyperbole here always makes me laugh, can you point out the right you are talking about ?

    6.) more straw-men and opinion again read #4 again

    7.) no it doesnt, abortion alone has no impact on them, thats like saying rape denies people their sex rights its totally illogical.

    this is the thing

    you are free to beleieve what ever you want and thats great, its awesome we live in a country whewre thats allowed but you dont get to force your morals on others and deem thiers meaningless. You dont get to talk about human rights or life and only value the ZEF. You dont get to talk about rights and only want them to follow your opinions. when you do these things people will simply point out these mistakes and call you on them.

    Just say you think its wrong, say you value the ZEF more and all thats fine but the rest will never get any other real response but people pointing out that its false, it goes beyond the point of opinion because there are facts that prove it wrong.
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  5. #255
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    WOW.....you just made the EXACT same argument as PRO-CHOICE. YOU are FORCING (or trying to) your beliefs on another. Except that it affects that OTHER's life and body, while it affects YOU not at all. And you dont see the complete hypocrisy in your statements?

    Re: your tyranny of the minority and keeping the things you dont believe in out of your 'community,' I have never seen a modern-day American have the nerve to put such a thing in writing unless they were very very racist (not saying you are racist). You dont seem to understand the Constitution at all and how the minority is PROTECTED from the majority by anything that is covered in the Constitution, and that supersedes the states and some 'community' that you are imagining.

    That does not exist in this country unless you are in some religious cult or commune or something. And you are free to live in such if you choose. You may not impose your personal beliefs on the general population. They tried to do that during segregation, remember?
    What are you failing to comprehend? I'm the only one arguing a pro-choice argument. I am allowing those who don't want this abomination the choice of not having it in their community while you are the one forcing a choice, your choice on everyone around you. I am the one saying if you want to kill, it's wrong but do it over there. You are the one saying I want to kill, its good and wholesome and regardless of what you think I'm going to do it where ever I damn well please and you better not say squat about it. It is you who fail to see your own hypocrisy. But since you think ending the life of the unborn is a wonderful choice to be given, I can only imagine the warm feeling you get in your (empty) tummy when talking out both sides of your mouth.

    Well now you can tell the next person you've seen this marvelous argument for freedom before and that they weren't the first you've heard about it from.

    Also, while I have your attention. The reason why you can't use racial segregation as an argument against what I'm taking about is because race is not action. A person is born whatever race they are and that alone has nothing to do with the topic at hand. A person's race doesn't perform an action or behavior.

    I'm beginning to giggle at your off handed comments, one because you seem to miss my higher argument on abortion and two that you think you're championing freedom when in reality you are opposing freedom and only championing the right to deny other people their freedoms. But as you're also trying to be the champion of death, why give a fig about other people's freedom, you don't care about a right to life, so why would you care about any of the other rights a person should have?

  6. #256
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Allow me to ask a simple question. Except in instances of forced sex (rape), who is responsible for the act? The male and female involved. Both have a duty to use proper precautions, and be ready for the possible unwanted outcome (obviously if you're having an abortion, you were not ready to be a parent) thus the reality is that the "Choice" was made prior to intercourse.

    Furthermore, once conception has occurred, you've created a unique individual life. Yes, I AGREE, it IS HER BODY. However, the point of "choice" passed the moment intercourse was completed. That is the part we on the pro-life side find so disturbing. That responsible behavior is not only scoffed at, but the ending of a human life is seen as a sacred right.

    It's not a matter of wanting to curtail women's reproductive rights, it's a matter of saying "Hey now, you can screw till the cows come home, we really in the end don't care, but if you aren't ready to deal with the consequences... don't tell me killing your baby is a moral, just or right choice."

    Besides, Abortion denies men their reproductive rights, so it should be struck down on those grounds.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/aborti...ve-rights.html
    The woman is responsible and as such makes the most responsible decision for herself. THey dont have to use precautions, they just have to be prepared for the consequences...and abortion is a consequence. There is no escaping consequences for a pregnant woman. SHe gives birth, she loses it in a miscarriage, or she gets an abortion.. She escapes nothing. *YOU* just dont like one of her choices.

    Those are all your moral judgments, your 'beliefs.' Apparently not shared by all people, or all women. You cannot do anything about that fetus without infringing on HER rights. And we've already demonstrated that a fetus does NOT have equal rights because we do not ever kill other already born individuals to save people (like taking their liver to save another) or to save them from mental anguish caused by rape or incest. Just acknowledging that our laws NEVER allow that shows that the fetus does not have equal rights with the born.

    And whether or not it's a moral choice is up to the woman...not you. THat is YOUR belief. Not everyone's. It's not up to you or the govt to demand that a woman risk her life or long-term health or future to bear something she does not want.

    Would you allow the govt or strangers to demand that you risk your life or health on something you didnt believe in?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  7. #257
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    That 'human beating heart' may stop thru miscarriage anyway...you have no way of knowing if it would come to term.

    Irresponsibility is having a child that other people need to pay their own $$ to help you support. Abortion is a very responsible choice. It can enable a woman to continue an education, develop a job into a career, better care for children she already has....all things that are responsible and allow her to contribute more to society.

    It is one of a few responsible choices and a woman has the right to choose what's right for her. Not for something that might not ever even be born.

    How does having a miscarriage have anything to do with killing a innocent human being ?

    What a twisted narrative you've managed to construct. You've mitigated away the ending of a human life and called it " responsibility".
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    How does having a miscarriage have anything to do with killing a innocent human being ?

    What a twisted narrative you've managed to construct. You've mitigated away the ending of a human life and called it " responsibility".
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  9. #259
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    What are you failing to comprehend? I'm the only one arguing a pro-choice argument. I am allowing those who don't want this abomination the choice of not having it in their community while you are the one forcing a choice, your choice on everyone around you. I am the one saying if you want to kill, it's wrong but do it over there.

    Wow...and I'm not sure how many times I can keep saying it. Wow. YOU dont want certain people living in your community. Just wow. No one is forcing ANYTHING ON YOU....what are you going to do, slap a Scarlet Letter on any woman who has an abortion and then shun her? Do you read what you write? What is she forcing on you? Again....there is no right to not be offended.....you cant kick gays or blacks or people who eat too much garlic or people who drive Fords out of your community either. Where on Earth are you living? America? Our societies are FREE. You may keep your beliefs but you cannot force them on others. Please tell me how a woman who has an abortion is forcing that on YOU? You are not forced to have one. You dont like it? Suck it up....the world doesnt revolve around you and your beliefs and many others in that COMMUNITY would agree it doesnt. Want to live in a completely homogeneous society? Start your own cult and buy property.

    You are the one saying I want to kill, its good and wholesome and regardless of what you think I'm going to do it where ever I damn well please and you better not say squat about it. It is you who fail to see your own hypocrisy. But since you think ending the life of the unborn is a wonderful choice to be given, I can only imagine the warm feeling you get in your (empty) tummy when talking out both sides of your mouth.

    I dont want to kill and I dont want anyone to have an abortion. But I recognize the rights of any woman to do so. It is HER RIGHT. The fetus's are not equal to hers. Name a law where we can kill a toddler because he was the product of rape? Name a law where we will kill a man to take his liver for another person? We dont even force that on convicted criminals who have ALREADY lost major rights.

    Well now you can tell the next person you've seen this marvelous argument for freedom before and that they weren't the first you've heard about it from.

    Also, while I have your attention. The reason why you can't use racial segregation as an argument against what I'm taking about is because race is not action. A person is born whatever race they are and that alone has nothing to do with the topic at hand. A person's race doesn't perform an action or behavior.

    No, what's disturbing is that you think it's ok to try and remove people from your community that dont believe and act like you. THat is extremely disturbing and makes me wonder if you know anything about America at all, or freedom, or personal liberty, or respect for people different from you....all things this country was BUILT ON.

    I'm beginning to giggle at your off handed comments, one because you seem to miss my higher argument on abortion and two that you think you're championing freedom when in reality you are opposing freedom and only championing the right to deny other people their freedoms. But as you're also trying to be the champion of death, why give a fig about other people's freedom, you don't care about a right to life, so why would you care about any of the other rights a person should have?

    Feel free to explain how you are championing freedom when you try to kick people with different beliefs out of your community? Or that 'act' differently? That is intolerance to the point of sickness and very sad. And sad that someone only feels secure when surrounded by people that are exactly like them.

    People who think, believe, act differently are exercising their personal liberty, their RIGHT to Pursue Happiness and you dont have a right to object until it infringes on yours. THeir actions, beliefs dont change what you do or think.....and an abortion does not affect YOU.

    ................................
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #260
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    How does having a miscarriage have anything to do with killing a innocent human being ?

    What a twisted narrative you've managed to construct. You've mitigated away the ending of a human life and called it " responsibility".
    Difficulty with reading comprehension?

    Not all fetuses are born. THey die of natural causes in the womb, or sometimes unnatural causes like an accident. Miscarriages are actually pretty common. So you should not have the right to force a woman to risk her own life or health on something that might not even be born. It should be up to her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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