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Thread: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional [W:167:202:330]

  1. #161
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) not sure what you are calling supported, please explain
    3.) but that just a word game those laws do exists and lethal force is legal in rape even if the rape is extra brutal
    4.) true
    5.) again rape but to be clear im not sure why "mental anguish" is being discussed for abortion debate, its meaningless

    My statements that you chose to callout were all supported in my earlier posts. You asked no question so if you wanted anything further, go see the posts. That is what that meant.

    I didnt dispute when lethal force is legal, I clarified it further. I am a woman and I carry a firearm and I know the laws very well. Rape is considered the commission of a felony AND gross bodily harm in my state.

    As for 3) where you did ask a question, I was very clear in answering. Here it is again: most pro-lifers support abortion in cases (besides when the mother's life is in danger) of rape and incest. Why? To save the mother from mental anguish. Her life is not in danger after the fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  2. #162
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Nonsense. I've very anti death penalty and mildly pro-life (I'm also vegan); however, I have enough grey matter to understand that's not required for "consistency". Your argument is founded in a BS equivelance and it opens you to the personhood argument. Perhaps you cannot understand this, but I've been at this debate for years. Just tryin' to give you a little advice.



    Look up the science yourself. I don't give a **** if do, I'm just tryin' to inform you and others.


    Good day.

    Well that's as good an admission as any then! lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  3. #163
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    1.)My statements that you chose to callout were all supported in my earlier posts. You asked no question so if you wanted anything further, go see the posts. That is what that meant.

    2.) I didnt dispute when lethal force is legal, I clarified it further. I am a woman and I carry a firearm and I know the laws very well. Rape is considered the commission of a felony AND gross bodily harm in my state.

    3) where you did ask a question, I was very clear in answering. Here it is again: most pro-lifers support abortion in cases (besides when the mother's life is in danger) of rape and incest.

    4.) Why? To save the mother from mental anguish.

    5.) Her life is not in danger after the fact.
    1.) no thanks, seems you think i called something out and claimed it was support if you feel that way its your job to support it
    If i actually did say its not support by facts then its true but since i have no clue what you were referrring its meanignless

    2.) ok

    3.) yes some do support that

    4.) yes SOME think that way, some think about the kid, some think its physical torture, some think theres no way she should be forced to risk her life over a rap etc. it varies is my point.

    but i would agree those that have that opinion about just mental anguish would seem inconstant with their proclaimed stance

    5.) just for accuracy, her life is always endanger, that danger may be very small or very large but its always in danger because of the pregnancy.
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  4. #164
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.)

    5.) just for accuracy, her life is always endanger, that danger may be very small or very large but its always in danger because of the pregnancy.
    You like to type I see. Or see your words on the page.

    Cuz, as I said ("supported in previous posts") I have said exactly that in several posts in this thread.

    You can just agree or 'like' something, rather than reposting my comments.

    Or disagree, whatever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    1.) You like to type I see. Or see your words on the page.

    2.)Cuz, as I said ("supported in previous posts") I have said exactly that in several posts in this thread.

    You can just agree or 'like' something, rather than reposting my comments.

    Or disagree, whatever.
    1.) no i prefer not to lol, unless its something i care about or take my time im a horrible typer
    2.) ok cant do wither though without explanation
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
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  6. #166
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I admire your consistent beliefs. (no sarcasm)

    Do you believe that a woman that has been raped or forced in incest should be forced to bear a child from those acts?

    Pregnancy is just a condition....are you suggesting that the act of becoming pregnant is wrong? Deserving of some kind of punishment?
    Thank you

    Like I said above, this is a tough situation. Do I believe that a woman should bring that pregnancy to term and then set it up for adoption? Yes. If that's what the woman chooses. (meaning, instead of keeping it) Life is still life. Do I understand that this is a horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE dilemma that a woman must possibly face? Yes, without reservation.

    I could even understand, though not agree with a woman if she chooses to take the path of abortion in this case. It's easy to give definitive black and white answers on a political chat forum, but in real life it is obviously much different. Who is to say, heaven forbid if something horrendous like that happened to my wife, with the end result, that I wouldn't be the one to take her to Planned Parenthood myself? Don't know, I hope I am never put in that situation. I am 100% in the affirmative in what I believe. Life is life and anything -- including my own pain that I would have to endure as a result is no excuse to snuff it out. But would I have the strength? Honestly I don't know. This in no way however denies, undermines, or contradicts what I've said or what I believe.

    I refuse to listen to the down playing of the process which brings about the miracle of life. This again is a relativistic term. "Meh, you're just a life source, no biggie..."

    In no way am I suggesting it is wrong, to the contrary, I am saying that in many to most cases, the woman is the one to give her consent, with the power of consent comes responsibility. Whenever she gives her consent she is taking a risk in changing her -- as you put -- condition. If she becomes pregnant, this isn't a punishment, this is causality. She knows the risks, she simply ignores them or decides to take her chances.

    To use a poor analogy, when you go to a Casino, put your money on the Blackjack table, the dealer deals the cards, and hits a natural 21, he comes to rake, do you sweep your money that you put up to bet into your pocket and run off or do you pay the man? Paying him isn't punishment, it is the cost, the risk of playing the game.

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Jobs were indeed being shed at the end but never exceeded the 16 million under Obama in 2010 and continuing high today. People dropping out of the labor force and not counted make Obama's record look better than it was.

    I am sorry, you claim to have done research? Tell me where these numbers are wrong?
    Moderator's Warning:
    Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional [W:167:202:330]The topic is not the debt. The derailing stops now. Stick to discussing the OP. Also there are some fairly heated comments, some personal. Folks need to cool down.
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    This is the important stuff. We canít get lost in discrimination. We canít get lost in B.S. We canít get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Thank you

    Like I said above, this is a tough situation. Do I believe that a woman should bring that pregnancy to term and then set it up for adoption? Yes. If that's what the woman chooses. (meaning, instead of keeping it) Life is still life. Do I understand that this is a horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE dilemma that a woman must possibly face? Yes, without reservation.

    I could even understand, though not agree with a woman if she chooses to take the path of abortion in this case. It's easy to give definitive black and white answers on a political chat forum, but in real life it is obviously much different. Who is to say, heaven forbid if something horrendous like that happened to my wife, with the end result, that I wouldn't be the one to take her to Planned Parenthood myself? Don't know, I hope I am never put in that situation. I am 100% in the affirmative in what I believe. Life is life and anything -- including my own pain that I would have to endure as a result is no excuse to snuff it out. But would I have the strength? Honestly I don't know. This in no way however denies, undermines, or contradicts what I've said or what I believe.

    I refuse to listen to the down playing of the process which brings about the miracle of life. This again is a relativistic term. "Meh, you're just a life source, no biggie..."

    In no way am I suggesting it is wrong, to the contrary, I am saying that in many to most cases, the woman is the one to give her consent, with the power of consent comes responsibility. Whenever she gives her consent she is taking a risk in changing her -- as you put -- condition. If she becomes pregnant, this isn't a punishment, this is causality. She knows the risks, she simply ignores them or decides to take her chances.

    To use a poor analogy, when you go to a Casino, put your money on the Blackjack table, the dealer deals the cards, and hits a natural 21, he comes to rake, do you sweep your money that you put up to bet into your pocket and run off or do you pay the man? Paying him isn't punishment, it is the cost, the risk of playing the game.
    I'm glad you respect a woman enough to allow her the choice of abortion after being raped. However I wonder at the reasoning behind it. If it's murder to kill the fetus, why is that murder 'ok?' It is merciful, no doubt but IMO it proves that that fetal life, which may or may not ever even be born, does not have the same right to life as the woman. You could not kill the baby of a rape after it was born, could you? I'm not be crass, I'm looking at it from a *objective* view point not colored by religion, personal beliefs, or emotion.

    Re: getting pregnant. It does happen. And the woman does have to accept the consequences. There is absolutely no escape from them. If she gets pregnant, she will either choose to carry it and successfully do so, choose to carry it and miscarry, or choose to have an abortion. She escapes nothing. And in both the first and last cases, she can act responsibly. In the sad middle case, well many fetuses do not come to term naturally, or there are accidents, etc. That is not usually the fault of the woman.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #169
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I'm glad you respect a woman enough to allow her the choice of abortion after being raped. However I wonder at the reasoning behind it. If it's murder to kill the fetus, why is that murder 'ok?' It is merciful, no doubt but IMO it proves that that fetal life, which may or may not ever even be born, does not have the same right to life as the woman. You could not kill the baby of a rape after it was born, could you? I'm not be crass, I'm looking at it from a *objective* view point not colored by religion, personal beliefs, or emotion.

    Re: getting pregnant. It does happen. And the woman does have to accept the consequences. There is absolutely no escape from them. If she gets pregnant, she will either choose to carry it and successfully do so, choose to carry it and miscarry, or choose to have an abortion. She escapes nothing. And in both the first and last cases, she can act responsibly. In the sad middle case, well many fetuses do not come to term naturally, or there are accidents, etc. That is not usually the fault of the woman.
    See, you've misconstrued my message. Purposefully it would seem. I never said it was OK to kill anything for any reason. I specifically said exactly the opposite. I did say that that decision would be a tough one but that doesn't mean that I find the taking of life as somehow OK, that I "allow" anyone to do anything. I said that it is wrong. I also was honest enough to say that the decision was tough, and I could understand why someone would terminate the pregnancy but that doesn't mean I've given any tacit support to actually doing it. A person starving who steals a loaf of bread to save his life might feel justified in the fact that stealing saved him but that doesn't mean he didn't steal.

    You're conflating different circumstances into a discussion which is very specific. Abortion. The premeditated taking of a life. While there are for instances which make a relativistic determination seem justified, there is no justification. What's further, the overwhelming argument is the use of abortion for unwanted pregnancy due to, well lets be honest, selfish reasons. My original statements on this remain unchanged. A woman, however unfair she might think it, has the biological capabilities of producing life. If she engages in sexual intercourse than she is risking the chance that those biological functions may be engaged and become active. It is her responsibility to act in a way that minimizes the chances of those functions becoming active if she is not ready, financially, physically, or emotionally. Simply put, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

  10. #170
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    See, you've misconstrued my message. Purposefully it would seem. I never said it was OK to kill anything for any reason. I specifically said exactly the opposite. I did say that that decision would be a tough one but that doesn't mean that I find the taking of life as somehow OK, that I "allow" anyone to do anything. I said that it is wrong. I also was honest enough to say that the decision was tough, and I could understand why someone would terminate the pregnancy but that doesn't mean I've given any tacit support to actually doing it. A person starving who steals a loaf of bread to save his life might feel justified in the fact that stealing saved him but that doesn't mean he didn't steal.

    You're conflating different circumstances into a discussion which is very specific. Abortion. The premeditated taking of a life. While there are for instances which make a relativistic determination seem justified, there is no justification. What's further, the overwhelming argument is the use of abortion for unwanted pregnancy due to, well lets be honest, selfish reasons. My original statements on this remain unchanged. A woman, however unfair she might think it, has the biological capabilities of producing life. If she engages in sexual intercourse than she is risking the chance that those biological functions may be engaged and become active. It is her responsibility to act in a way that minimizes the chances of those functions becoming active if she is not ready, financially, physically, or emotionally. Simply put, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
    Your opinion and feelings on the issue are very understandable altho I mostly disagree. I DO respect a woman enough to believe she should have that choice and not be found guilty on this world for it. And YES, God will decide someday. OTOH, as a Christian, I also believe God will understand, forgive, and keep that unborn life just fine.

    To make that 'tough' decision for yourself or a woman for herself...is a personal decision. No woman that does not want to make that decision would be forced to.

    But to forbid a woman...or want to forbid her....to make her own decisions here is wrong and judgemental IMO. Terrible circumstances or circumstances that may change her life for herself and future children someday....those are for HER to decide, MORALLY and legally IMO. And certainly Constitutionally.

    And you just referred to getting pregnant as a crime...therefore once again considering a baby 'punishment.' That is a common theme among people who use religion or other personal beliefs rather than Constitutional rights to judge women. Today's women 'can do the time.' "The time" includes legal abortion which is not murder. It is a responsible option, even tho you do not like it.

    Some people choose to attach unnatural emotion and significance to developing life inside complete strangers. Developing life that MAY NEVER even be born. It's more about punishing women than saving lives. I believe in quality of life, not quantity.

    Re: abortion for selfish reasons. Aside from an unplanned pregnancy, there is no reason people have kids that is not selfish. No one has kids to 'help populate society.'
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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