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Thread: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional [W:167:202:330]

  1. #151
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Debt has continued to increase whether it is a Dem or Rep in charge. Nothing can change that fact. If a Rep gets in the WH for 2016, I'd bet money that they too will INCREASE the debt and you will continue to make excuses. But then I wouldn't expect anything less from a Republican such as yourself or a Dem. Jobs were shedding at record rates under Bush at the end.

    I have done my research, it's clear you haven't. You make excuses for YOUR side.

    Jobs were indeed being shed at the end but never exceeded the 16 million under Obama in 2010 and continuing high today. People dropping out of the labor force and not counted make Obama's record look better than it was.

    I am sorry, you claim to have done research? Tell me where these numbers are wrong?

    Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey
    Original Data Value

    Series Id: LNS13000000
    Seasonally Adjusted
    Series title: (Seas) Unemployment Level
    Labor force status: Unemployed
    Type of data: Number in thousands
    Age: 16 years and over
    Years: 2000 to 2012

    Unemployed

    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
    2000 5708 5858 5733 5481 5758 5651 5747 5853 5625 5534 5639 5634
    2001 6023 6089 6141 6271 6226 6484 6583 7042 7142 7694 8003 8258
    2002 8182 8215 8304 8599 8399 8393 8390 8304 8251 8307 8520 8640
    2003 8520 8618 8588 8842 8957 9266 9011 8896 8921 8732 8576 8317
    2004 8370 8167 8491 8170 8212 8286 8136 7990 7927 8061 7932 7934
    2005 7784 7980 7737 7672 7651 7524 7406 7345 7553 7453 7566 7279
    2006 7059 7185 7075 7122 6977 6998 7154 7097 6853 6728 6883 6784
    2007 7085 6898 6725 6845 6765 6966 7113 7096 7200 7273 7284 7696
    2008 7678 7491 7816 7631 8395 8578 8950 9450 9501 10083 10544 11299
    2009 12049 12860 13389 13796 14505 14727 14646 14861 15012 15421 15227 15124
    2010 14953 15039 15128 15221 14876 14517 14609 14735 14574 14636 15104 14393
    2011 13919 13751 13628 13792 13892 14024 13908 13920 13897 13759 13323 13097
    2012 12748 12806 12686 12518 12695 12701 12745 12483 12082 12248 12042 12206
    2013 12332 12032 11742 11659 11760 11777 11514 11316 11255 11272

    Discouraged workers

    2008 467 396 401 412 400 420 461 381 467 484 608 642
    2009 734 731 685 740 792 793 796 758 706 808 861 929
    2010 1065 1204 994 1197 1083 1207 1185 1110 1209 1219 1282 1318
    2011 993 1020 921 989 822 982 1119 977 1037 967 1096 945
    2012 1059 1006 865 968 830 821 852 844 802 813 979 1068
    2013 804 885 803 835 780 1027 988 866 852 815

    Unemployed + Discouraged

    2008 8145 7887 8217 8043 8795 8998 9411 9831 9968 10567 11152 11941
    2009 12783 13591 14074 14536 15297 15520 15442 15619 15718 16229 16088 16053
    2010 16018 16243 16122 16418 15959 15724 15794 15845 15783 15855 16386 15711
    2011 14912 14771 14549 14781 14714 15006 15027 14897 14934 14726 14419 14042
    2012 13807 13812 13551 13486 13525 13522 13597 13327 12884 13061 13021 13274
    2013 13136 12917 12545 12577 12540 12804 12502 12182 12107 12087 0 0

    Labor Force 2009 154185 154424 154100 154453 154805 154754 154457 154362 153940 154022 153795 153172
    Labor Force 2011 153250 153302 153392 153420 153700 153409 153358 153674 154004 154057 153937 153887
    Labor Force 2012 154395 154871 154707 154365 155007 155163 155013 154645 155053 155641 155319 155511
    Labor Force 2013 155654 155524 155028 155238 155658 155835 155798 155486 155559 154839

    UE 2009 w/o DW 7.81% 8.33% 8.69% 8.93% 9.37% 9.52% 9.48% 9.63% 9.75% 10.01% 9.90% 9.87%
    UE 2010 w/o DW 9.70% 9.74% 9.82% 9.85% 9.61% 9.38% 9.46% 9.55% 9.47% 9.50% 9.82% 9.40%
    UE 2011 w/o DW-U-3 9.08% 8.97% 8.88% 8.99% 9.04% 9.14% 9.07% 9.06% 9.02% 8.93% 8.65% 8.51%
    UE 2012 w/o DW 8.26% 8.27% 8.20% 8.11% 8.19% 8.19% 8.22% 8.07% 7.79% 7.87% 7.75% 7.85%
    UE 2013 w/o DW 7.92% 7.74% 7.57% 7.51% 7.56% 7.56% 7.39% 7.28% 7.24% 7.28% #DIV/0! #DIV/0!

    2009 U-3 With DW 8.29% 8.80% 9.13% 9.41% 9.88% 10.03% 10.00% 10.12% 10.21% 10.54% 10.46% 10.48%
    2010 U-3 With DW 10.45% 10.60% 10.51% 10.70% 10.38% 10.25% 10.30% 10.31% 10.25% 10.29% 10.64% 10.21%
    UE 2011 with DW 9.73% 9.64% 9.48% 9.63% 9.57% 9.78% 9.80% 9.69% 9.70% 9.56% 9.37% 9.12%
    UE 2012 with DW 8.94% 8.92% 8.76% 8.74% 8.73% 8.71% 8.77% 8.62% 8.31% 8.39% 8.38% 8.54%
    UE 2013 with DW 8.44% 8.31% 8.09% 8.10% 8.06% 8.22% 8.02% 7.83% 7.78% 7.81% #DIV/0! #DIV/0!

  2. #152
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yep, your opinion noted, guess personal responsibility is out of the question in your world as well. A fetus is a living being that you have a problem giving the same opportunity your mother gave you.
    Abortion is a very responsible option. It keeps *other people* such as taxpayers for having to take responsibility. IMO it is irresponsible to have kids you cant support...and we see that every day....it comes up in every "Walmart doesnt pay a living wage" or "raise the minimum wage" thread I ever saw.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  3. #153
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) no they are both a live and both have life in regards to living.
    now in regards to subjective things like a family member saying "you have no life" then yes
    2.) agreed
    3.) not sure what you are quite saying here, i think we are just misunderstanding eachother but in general not true, i can easily kill you in self defense, ill have to prove thats what it was but there are laws protecting me in that regard. You can also kill in protection of bodily harm including rape in many areas
    4.) this i agree with, they are not.
    I do however think they should be BUT the reality is, thats factually impossible due to where the ZEF resides and how it comes to term.
    5.) I agree in the majority of cases until viability then its more tricky
    Your 'numbers' are noted. For the most part all are supported here in my posts, agree or not.

    Re: 3) for clarification, I am aware of no laws where we can terminate another (born) individual to save someone else's life (as in when the mother's life is endangered) or save them from mental anguish (rape or incest). Self-defense against lethal force or gross bodily harm is action taken against someone directly threatening you, directly infringing on our right to life. A fetus can be the cause of the danger to the mother but the mother can also opt for chemotherapy or drugs to save her own life that will end the life of the fetus (and the fetus is not the cause of the disease, for ex.) And I'm not aware of any cases where you can kill someone to prevent another from mental anguish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #154
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    1.)So, "your" god is fine with your opinion? interesting that you know what "your" god feels about the issue.
    2.) "My" God believes in life as well as personal responsibility thus giving us free will and then holding us responsible for the choices we make.
    3.) I have given my opinion and it will always be for life. I do not support the killing of a human fetus who has done nothing to deserve that verdict.
    4.) Abortion is legal in this country and seems to be an epidemic in recent years showing how cheap life is and how there are no consequences for that choice although I know that sometime in the future that choice will require reconciliation
    5.) Yes, much of what I post is opinion, but it is opinion based upon my belief that there is right and wrong as well as consequences for all decisions made.
    6.) Millions of human fetuses are never given that right to have an opinion or to make an impact on society.
    7.) You are here because your Mom chose life, think about it
    1.) yes i do know what my god is fine with
    2.) thats good but completely meaningless to this discussion
    3.) and your opinion is fine by me you are free to have it in this country and thats awesome but you are not for life you are for the life of the ZEF not the the woman hers doesn't count
    4.) more meaningless opinion when we are talking law and rights.

    what about the people that think you are cheapening life? they dont count, only your opinion counts?

    5.) and thats awesome, what you should do is thank your god you live in a place where its possible to have those beliefs and share them. Seems you dont like that though, is that true?
    6.) this is true and that right cant be given to them without violating the rights of others so this is why IMO it should be something in the middle.

    And its totally fine if you disagree just dont claim you support rights or "life" because thats factually not true when you say it in blanket form.

    7.) lol yes i am completely meaningless and has zero impact to anything. Theres nothing to think about, she was and is pro-choice yet im still here, imagine that.

    So simply question do you want the law changed to reflect your views or are you fine with something in the middle. Personally RvW doesnt motivate me to do much fighting but im not a fan. I wish the limit was 21 weeks (viability) and that this was national and everything after that was cases by case (high risk of life, deformities, risk of still born things of that nature) and i wish the ZEF had some legislated rights at 21 weeks. Since its impossible to be equal this is about as close as we can get.

    What do you want?
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  5. #155
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Because a woman has a legal right doesn't make that a moral right and yes there is such a thing as right and wrong in the real world. Being legal doesn't change the fact that women killing their baby won't have to reconcile that decision in the future. You see in the liberal world there are no consequences for bad decisions but at some time in the future there will be.

    .
    There are many things that are legal that may not be considered 'moral,' like many forms of lying and cheating. And what makes you think that abortion is not a 'consequence?' Is the assumption that the decision is easy? The procedure pleasant? I liken it to divorce....also considered 'immoral' by some. It is a terrible thing, very difficult to go thru, but it's generally done with the expectation of a better future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  6. #156
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Abortion is a very responsible option. It keeps *other people* such as taxpayers for having to take responsibility. IMO it is irresponsible to have kids you cant support...and we see that every day....it comes up in every "Walmart doesnt pay a living wage" or "raise the minimum wage" thread I ever saw.
    Only because that is what liberals want, someone else to take responsibility versus holding those accountable for their actions. There are no consequences for poor choices in today's world and the cheapening of life is being ignored.

    Those that claim Wal-Mart doesn't pay a living wage are the same people who have no idea what a living wage is because that wage changes depending on the cost of living and personal choices made. This country is in a mess and freedom to kill the unborn has sent it into free fall.

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    1.)Your 'numbers' are noted. For the most part all are supported here in my posts, agree or not.

    Re: 3) for clarification, I am aware of no laws where we can terminate another (born) individual to save someone else's life (as in when the mother's life is endangered) or save them from mental anguish (rape or incest). Self-defense against lethal force or gross bodily harm is action taken against someone directly threatening you, directly infringing on our right to life.

    4.) A fetus can be the cause of the danger to the mother but the mother can also opt for chemotherapy or drugs to save her own life that will end the life of the fetus (and the fetus is not the cause of the disease, for ex.)
    5.) And I'm not aware of any cases where you can kill someone to prevent another from mental anguish.
    1.) not sure what you are calling supported, please explain
    3.) but that just a word game those laws do exists and lethal force is legal in rape even if the rape is extra brutal
    4.) true
    5.) again rape but to be clear im not sure why "mental anguish" is being discussed for abortion debate, its meaningless
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  8. #158
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    There are many things that are legal that may not be considered 'moral,' like many forms of lying and cheating. And what makes you think that abortion is not a 'consequence?' Is the assumption that the decision is easy? The procedure pleasant? I liken it to divorce....also considered 'immoral' by some. It is a terrible thing, very difficult to go thru, but it's generally done with the expectation of a better future.
    Point taken, don't think it is pleasant, an easy decision, not a consequence but rather it is however the easy way out for some and that decision will have to be reconciled some day. I was always taught that there are consequences for poor choices made and if I got a woman pregnant that is my responsibility as well as hers. I have met people who never accept responsibility for anything and thus killing the unborn isn't a problem for them. It should be and that is the problem today with society, IMO

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    You do if you ask the question: "what about the death penalty". Therein, you have made such a concession. That was a dumb argument, illegitimate and counter-productive; I'm demonstrating such.

    No one - not even the most foaming religious fundie nutbag - argues the strawman you are presenting.


    Coma-like
    It is a relevant argument, but it seems you lost it and so now dont like it. It depends on the grounds on which you build your opinions of abortion and the death penalty. Neither of mine is built on the 'sanctitiy of life.' Many peoples' are.

    Please point out the straw man...isnt that something untrue or irrelevant? Ask a pregnant woman how much she thinks about dying in labor.....even one joyfully expecting a baby. And the statistics support her concern.

    And if you dont want me to use your terminology, dont include it. I guess to support your argument further, you'll have to be explicit in describing that 'coma-like' state because AFAIK, people in coma's do not register pain. Nor are the conscious of events around them or happening to them. Hence, it seems TO ME that normal term abortions should not even be an issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #160
    global liberation

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    It is a relevant argument, but it seems you lost it and so now dont like it.
    Nonsense. I've very anti death penalty and mildly pro-life (I'm also vegan); however, I have enough grey matter to understand that's not required for "consistency". Your argument is founded in a BS equivelance and it opens you to the personhood argument. Perhaps you cannot understand this, but I've been at this debate for years. Just tryin' to give you a little advice.

    And if you dont want me to use your terminology, dont include it. I guess to support your argument further, you'll have to be explicit in describing that 'coma-like' state because AFAIK, people in coma's do not register pain. Nor are the conscious of events around them or happening to them. Hence, it seems TO ME that normal term abortions should not even be an issue.
    Look up the science yourself. I don't give a **** if do, I'm just tryin' to inform you and others.


    Good day.

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