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Thread: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional [W:167:202:330]

  1. #101
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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Nonsense. It is without guilt. Recent science has shown that the fetus is affected by several hormones that induce a coma-like state, and thus perceiving cognitive ability is not so easy.
    And it is without innocence. It is nothingness. Until viability and even then, it can have no 'intent.' Dont make up stuff to support an argument.

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And it is without innocence. It is nothingness. Until viability and even then, it can have no 'intent.' Dont make up stuff to support an argument.
    I'm an anti death penalty atheist, so spare me the condescension. The obvious point, which is either beyond your grasp or is being intentionally ignored by you in a brazen display of intellectual dishonesty, is that a person sentenced to death is (presumably) guilty of a heinous crime.

    It's viable at ~22 weeks and you claim it cannot think even then? The hormones inducing a coma-like state is not an invention of mine.

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I'm an anti death penalty atheist, so spare me the condescension. The obvious point, which is either beyond your grasp or is being intentionally ignored by you in a brazen display of intellectual dishonesty, is that a person sentenced to death is (presumably) guilty of a heinous crime.

    It's viable at ~22 weeks and you claim it cannot think even then?
    Well yes, I do claim that it cannot form intent. Do you have evidence otherwise?

    I'm a practicing Christian, btw.

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Well yes, I do claim that it cannot form intent. Do you have evidence otherwise?

    I'm a practicing Christian, btw.
    Intent is irrelevant. The unborn are guilty of no crime, those sentenced to death presumably are - you cannot ignore this distinction and remain in an intellectually viable position.

    Regarding cognition, I am not making up the (recently discovered) hormones causing a coma-like state.

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And it is without innocence. It is nothingness. Until viability and even then, it can have no 'intent.' Dont make up stuff to support an argument.
    Nonsense. It is life. Relativism creates the illusion called "viability". You wouldn't, couldn't be here today if someone decided to snuff out your life before you were considered "viable".

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Intent is irrelevant. The unborn are guilty of no crime, those sentenced to death presumably are - you cannot ignore this distinction and remain in an intellectually viable position.

    Regarding cognition, I am not making up the (recently discovered) hormones causing a coma-like state.
    They are not guilty because there is no way to be guilty of anything. They just exist and may never be born to enter society.

    As for 'regarding cognition'...you just claimed it doesnt make a difference. If they are in a coma-like state, then they never are aware of any action to terminate them. Or now will you claim they feel pain? Please pick one. (It's proven they do feel external stimuli of course, so so much for coma-like state. But then again, the most primitive of organisms respond to external stimuli, that does not prove cognition.)

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Nonsense. It is life. Relativism creates the illusion called "viability". You wouldn't, couldn't be here today if someone decided to snuff out your life before you were considered "viable".
    My point is Constitutional in nature. Do the rights of the unborn supersede those of the born (woman)? I would say no, as I pointed out in earlier posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    They are not guilty because there is no way to be guilty of anything.
    Exactly. So, we can stop pretending that killing a murderer is the same as killing those without guilt?


    As for 'regarding cognition'...you just claimed it doesnt make a difference. If they are in a coma-like state, then they never are aware of any action to terminate them. Or now will you claim they feel pain? Please pick one. (It's proven they do feel external stimuli of course, so so much for coma-like state. But then again, the most primitive of organisms respond to external stimuli, that does not prove cognition.)
    While cognition is not required to establish a fetus 'not guilty', it is interesting to note that cognition occurs far earlier and to a far greater extent than recently believed.

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    My point is Constitutional in nature. Do the rights of the unborn supersede those of the born (woman)? I would say no, as I pointed out in earlier posts.
    I obviously would say that it is a false choice. To give a quick run down I'm against the death penalty, against abortion, against war, against all forms of aggressive violence. I do believe you have a right to self defense. If you're life is in danger you do have a right to protecting it. Which would be the only time I view abortion as acceptable -- The woman's life (not pocketbook) is in danger.

    The woman never, never, never, (never?) NEVER has the "right" to take a life if that life isn't threatening her life (again life not pocketbook or lifestyle).

    The constitution also allowed and was protected by the SCOTUS for slavery, does this mean slavery is cool too? So the law of the land argument isn't gong to work.

    The problem I have most times with the opposing view point, like I am gleaning from yours is you think that this pregnancy is something that happened to you, as if you had no part. Now, you can come back with rape and that's all fine and dandy, that's a helluva problem, I'll admit, however it has nothing to to with the fundamental understanding that life does begin at conception.

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    Re: Fed judge: Texas abortion limits unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    My point is Constitutional in nature. Do the rights of the unborn supersede those of the born (woman)? I would say no, as I pointed out in earlier posts.
    Rights can only be infringed when balanced against each other. That's how law works. If you ask the question "what about the death penalty", then you have conceded personhood of the fetus. Given personhood, its right to life trumps the woman's right to her body. Could a Siamese Twin have the other killed without there being a threat to its own life?
    Last edited by ecofarm; 11-20-13 at 04:51 AM.

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