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Thread: GOP Rift Extends to Immigration

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    GOP Rift Extends to Immigration

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/us...nted=1&_r=0&hp

    But privately, some House Republican officials are saying that they do not expect any major legislation to move through the House this year, or perhaps not even until 2015, in advance of the next presidential election.

    There is intense division within the party over the proposals. In fact, a core group of hard-line conservatives said in interviews this week that they would not be intimidated by pressure from corporate America or other outside parties, even though in this case that includes farmers, evangelical leaders and some prominent conservatives.
    My issue with this political debate is not that some Republicans are dead set against reforming immigration. My problem is the argument from the side that does want to, for political reasons, but also for political reasons do not want to do it until 2015 right before the presidential campaign. What would an immigrant family who has been waiting years to have their status recognized think if they found out it could have been done 2 years earlier but was delayed so that the Republicans could have a better image right before an election?

    The transparency of the political calculation on this issue has been sickening to me. On one hand, it's good to support a good cause, no matter what your reason is. On the other hand, you should do what is right because its right, and if you get rewarded then that's a plus, but doing something right just for the reward without caring about what it was you did is kind of upsetting.
    "Obamacare delenda est"

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    Re: GOP Rift Extends to Immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/us...nted=1&_r=0&hp



    My issue with this political debate is not that some Republicans are dead set against reforming immigration. My problem is the argument from the side that does want to, for political reasons, but also for political reasons do not want to do it until 2015 right before the presidential campaign. What would an immigrant family who has been waiting years to have their status recognized think if they found out it could have been done 2 years earlier but was delayed so that the Republicans could have a better image right before an election?

    The transparency of the political calculation on this issue has been sickening to me. On one hand, it's good to support a good cause, no matter what your reason is. On the other hand, you should do what is right because its right, and if you get rewarded then that's a plus, but doing something right just for the reward without caring about what it was you did is kind of upsetting.
    I like how they define americans as "outside parties"

    In fact, a core group of hard-line conservatives said in interviews this week that they would not be intimidated by pressure from corporate America or other outside parties, even though in this case that includes farmers, evangelical leaders and some prominent conservatives.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: GOP Rift Extends to Immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/us...nted=1&_r=0&hp



    My issue with this political debate is not that some Republicans are dead set against reforming immigration. My problem is the argument from the side that does want to, for political reasons, but also for political reasons do not want to do it until 2015 right before the presidential campaign. What would an immigrant family who has been waiting years to have their status recognized think if they found out it could have been done 2 years earlier but was delayed so that the Republicans could have a better image right before an election?

    The transparency of the political calculation on this issue has been sickening to me. On one hand, it's good to support a good cause, no matter what your reason is. On the other hand, you should do what is right because its right, and if you get rewarded then that's a plus, but doing something right just for the reward without caring about what it was you did is kind of upsetting.
    I would tell them that their status as an undocumented immigrant is already recognized as such and will likely remain as such, that political calculation is the only reason the topic is being addressed, and to not hold out hope that it will pass or that if it does pass, that they will be recognized. A great many immigrants will still have to self-deport and stand at the back of the line even under the democratic plan. Other than those who fall into the proposed DREAM Act, most of the immigrants who vote or support the democrats are going to be shocked to discover that the democrats are mostly interested in raising caps on things like H1B's for the benefit of Silicon Valley and healthcare providers, not field workers and families of legal immigrants and the like.

    I support liberal immigration policies, but the democrats are not going to do any better than the GOP on this issue. The GOP is just honest about it, and the democrats just want to trick immigrants who can into voting for them and donating money for them and organizing for them. If immigrants really want to see change, they need to organize their own parties, field their own candidates, and become a political force in all the states where they have numbers that will not settle for crumbs and betrayal time and time again. Hispanics do not vote in proportion to their population. They need to start voting in excess of their proportion, and only for Hispanic candidates or candidates who have a proven history of helping immigrants as opposed to just promising to help immigrants.

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    Re: GOP Rift Extends to Immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    I
    I support liberal immigration policies, but the democrats are not going to do any better than the GOP on this issue.
    The Democratic Senate has already passed a bipartisan bill that is reasonable if not perfect. But the tea party occupation forces in the House won't let it reach the floor, because they know it will also pass with bipartisan support.

    Latino voters will remember this, just like they remembered all the anti-immigrant scapegoating by the GOP last election. It's wonderful how the tea party, like a Golem, is strangling its creator to death.

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    Re: GOP Rift Extends to Immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/us...nted=1&_r=0&hp



    My issue with this political debate is not that some Republicans are dead set against reforming immigration. My problem is the argument from the side that does want to, for political reasons, but also for political reasons do not want to do it until 2015 right before the presidential campaign. What would an immigrant family who has been waiting years to have their status recognized think if they found out it could have been done 2 years earlier but was delayed so that the Republicans could have a better image right before an election?

    The transparency of the political calculation on this issue has been sickening to me. On one hand, it's good to support a good cause, no matter what your reason is. On the other hand, you should do what is right because its right, and if you get rewarded then that's a plus, but doing something right just for the reward without caring about what it was you did is kind of upsetting.
    Why does immigration need reform?

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    Re: GOP Rift Extends to Immigration

    Democrats are facing a brick wall of a dead end on Obamacare and fiscal issues. And Republicans are threatened with the persistent distrust on the part of not-so-minor-anymore minorities.

    Well, time is ripe to change the tone of conversation and focus on the immigration reform. Barack Obama is not going to be remembered (kindly) as the "author" of the ACA or the record national debt. But he still has an excellent chance of being remembered as the man who reminded America of its core values - if (and it is a big "if", judging from his record so far) he shows some real leadership on the issue.

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    Re: GOP Rift Extends to Immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Democrats are facing a brick wall of a dead end on Obamacare and fiscal issues. And Republicans are threatened with the persistent distrust on the part of not-so-minor-anymore minorities.

    Well, time is ripe to change the tone of conversation and focus on the immigration reform. Barack Obama is not going to be remembered (kindly) as the "author" of the ACA or the record national debt. But he still has an excellent chance of being remembered as the man who reminded America of its core values - if (and it is a big "if", judging from his record so far) he shows some real leadership on the issue.
    My opinion? He's dead in the water on this issue unless Democrats win big in 2014. He's used up his political cache.

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    Re: GOP Rift Extends to Immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    My opinion? He's dead in the water on this issue unless Democrats win big in 2014. He's used up his political cache.
    Then I hope pro-immigration Republicans like Flake and McCain can get the ball running. I would rather prefer that, actually. Less pandering, more reasoning there.

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    Re: GOP Rift Extends to Immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Why does immigration need reform?
    Because the current laws don't work. They aren't keeping the people we don't want out, and kicking the people we do want (STEM workers and foreigners who graduate from our colleges) out.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: GOP Rift Extends to Immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Because the current laws don't work. They aren't keeping the people we don't want out, and kicking the people we do want (STEM workers and foreigners who graduate from our colleges) out.
    I'd be all for that kind of reform. But this isn't about immigration in general -- this is all about our southern border. I hope whatever makes its way through the legislature solves that problem which, in my little mind, is the biggest problem we have re immigration.

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