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GOP Rift Extends to Immigration

aberrant85

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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/u...-act-on-immigration.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&hp

But privately, some House Republican officials are saying that they do not expect any major legislation to move through the House this year, or perhaps not even until 2015, in advance of the next presidential election.

There is intense division within the party over the proposals. In fact, a core group of hard-line conservatives said in interviews this week that they would not be intimidated by pressure from corporate America or other outside parties, even though in this case that includes farmers, evangelical leaders and some prominent conservatives.

My issue with this political debate is not that some Republicans are dead set against reforming immigration. My problem is the argument from the side that does want to, for political reasons, but also for political reasons do not want to do it until 2015 right before the presidential campaign. What would an immigrant family who has been waiting years to have their status recognized think if they found out it could have been done 2 years earlier but was delayed so that the Republicans could have a better image right before an election?

The transparency of the political calculation on this issue has been sickening to me. On one hand, it's good to support a good cause, no matter what your reason is. On the other hand, you should do what is right because its right, and if you get rewarded then that's a plus, but doing something right just for the reward without caring about what it was you did is kind of upsetting.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/u...-act-on-immigration.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&hp



My issue with this political debate is not that some Republicans are dead set against reforming immigration. My problem is the argument from the side that does want to, for political reasons, but also for political reasons do not want to do it until 2015 right before the presidential campaign. What would an immigrant family who has been waiting years to have their status recognized think if they found out it could have been done 2 years earlier but was delayed so that the Republicans could have a better image right before an election?

The transparency of the political calculation on this issue has been sickening to me. On one hand, it's good to support a good cause, no matter what your reason is. On the other hand, you should do what is right because its right, and if you get rewarded then that's a plus, but doing something right just for the reward without caring about what it was you did is kind of upsetting.

I like how they define americans as "outside parties"

In fact, a core group of hard-line conservatives said in interviews this week that they would not be intimidated by pressure from corporate America or other outside parties, even though in this case that includes farmers, evangelical leaders and some prominent conservatives.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/u...-act-on-immigration.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&hp



My issue with this political debate is not that some Republicans are dead set against reforming immigration. My problem is the argument from the side that does want to, for political reasons, but also for political reasons do not want to do it until 2015 right before the presidential campaign. What would an immigrant family who has been waiting years to have their status recognized think if they found out it could have been done 2 years earlier but was delayed so that the Republicans could have a better image right before an election?

The transparency of the political calculation on this issue has been sickening to me. On one hand, it's good to support a good cause, no matter what your reason is. On the other hand, you should do what is right because its right, and if you get rewarded then that's a plus, but doing something right just for the reward without caring about what it was you did is kind of upsetting.

I would tell them that their status as an undocumented immigrant is already recognized as such and will likely remain as such, that political calculation is the only reason the topic is being addressed, and to not hold out hope that it will pass or that if it does pass, that they will be recognized. A great many immigrants will still have to self-deport and stand at the back of the line even under the democratic plan. Other than those who fall into the proposed DREAM Act, most of the immigrants who vote or support the democrats are going to be shocked to discover that the democrats are mostly interested in raising caps on things like H1B's for the benefit of Silicon Valley and healthcare providers, not field workers and families of legal immigrants and the like.

I support liberal immigration policies, but the democrats are not going to do any better than the GOP on this issue. The GOP is just honest about it, and the democrats just want to trick immigrants who can into voting for them and donating money for them and organizing for them. If immigrants really want to see change, they need to organize their own parties, field their own candidates, and become a political force in all the states where they have numbers that will not settle for crumbs and betrayal time and time again. Hispanics do not vote in proportion to their population. They need to start voting in excess of their proportion, and only for Hispanic candidates or candidates who have a proven history of helping immigrants as opposed to just promising to help immigrants.
 
I
I support liberal immigration policies, but the democrats are not going to do any better than the GOP on this issue.

The Democratic Senate has already passed a bipartisan bill that is reasonable if not perfect. But the tea party occupation forces in the House won't let it reach the floor, because they know it will also pass with bipartisan support.

Latino voters will remember this, just like they remembered all the anti-immigrant scapegoating by the GOP last election. It's wonderful how the tea party, like a Golem, is strangling its creator to death.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/u...-act-on-immigration.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&hp



My issue with this political debate is not that some Republicans are dead set against reforming immigration. My problem is the argument from the side that does want to, for political reasons, but also for political reasons do not want to do it until 2015 right before the presidential campaign. What would an immigrant family who has been waiting years to have their status recognized think if they found out it could have been done 2 years earlier but was delayed so that the Republicans could have a better image right before an election?

The transparency of the political calculation on this issue has been sickening to me. On one hand, it's good to support a good cause, no matter what your reason is. On the other hand, you should do what is right because its right, and if you get rewarded then that's a plus, but doing something right just for the reward without caring about what it was you did is kind of upsetting.

Why does immigration need reform?
 
Democrats are facing a brick wall of a dead end on Obamacare and fiscal issues. And Republicans are threatened with the persistent distrust on the part of not-so-minor-anymore minorities.

Well, time is ripe to change the tone of conversation and focus on the immigration reform. Barack Obama is not going to be remembered (kindly) as the "author" of the ACA or the record national debt. But he still has an excellent chance of being remembered as the man who reminded America of its core values - if (and it is a big "if", judging from his record so far) he shows some real leadership on the issue.
 
Democrats are facing a brick wall of a dead end on Obamacare and fiscal issues. And Republicans are threatened with the persistent distrust on the part of not-so-minor-anymore minorities.

Well, time is ripe to change the tone of conversation and focus on the immigration reform. Barack Obama is not going to be remembered (kindly) as the "author" of the ACA or the record national debt. But he still has an excellent chance of being remembered as the man who reminded America of its core values - if (and it is a big "if", judging from his record so far) he shows some real leadership on the issue.

My opinion? He's dead in the water on this issue unless Democrats win big in 2014. He's used up his political cache.
 
My opinion? He's dead in the water on this issue unless Democrats win big in 2014. He's used up his political cache.

Then I hope pro-immigration Republicans like Flake and McCain can get the ball running. I would rather prefer that, actually. Less pandering, more reasoning there.
 
Why does immigration need reform?

Because the current laws don't work. They aren't keeping the people we don't want out, and kicking the people we do want (STEM workers and foreigners who graduate from our colleges) out.
 
Because the current laws don't work. They aren't keeping the people we don't want out, and kicking the people we do want (STEM workers and foreigners who graduate from our colleges) out.

I'd be all for that kind of reform. But this isn't about immigration in general -- this is all about our southern border. I hope whatever makes its way through the legislature solves that problem which, in my little mind, is the biggest problem we have re immigration.
 
I'd be all for that kind of reform. But this isn't about immigration in general -- this is all about our southern border. I hope whatever makes its way through the legislature solves that problem which, in my little mind, is the biggest problem we have re immigration.

Though mexican immigrants get the lion share of the attention, the laws being proposed address immigration from all sources.
 
Though mexican immigrants get the lion share of the attention, the laws being proposed address immigration from all sources.

I suppose the work visa and student visa holes need plugging, don't they? Yeah, you're right.
 
I suppose the work visa and student visa holes need plugging, don't they? Yeah, you're right.

I could be misremembering, but I believe there's also an expansion of the termporary workers' permit too. That wouldn't eliminate illegal immigration, but it would make it less attractive in comparison.
 
Why does immigration need reform?

It doesn't. However, it could use some work. Nothing in Washington needs reform. Every time someone finds something not working like it's planned they have to "reform" it. So aggravating.
 
If we enforced the laws, then maybe people would have faith this "reform" was honest. We do not enforce current laws, $$ and votes are dancing in the eyes of progressive politicians and regular joe America sees nothing but higher taxes and erosion of sovereignty.

Why not just be upfront and call it what it is? Future Voter bribe act of 2014 and at least not lie that they care about "the plight of immigrants", cause really... they don't. They just want the votes.
 
The Democratic Senate has already passed a bipartisan bill that is reasonable if not perfect. But the tea party occupation forces in the House won't let it reach the floor, because they know it will also pass with bipartisan support.

Latino voters will remember this, just like they remembered all the anti-immigrant scapegoating by the GOP last election. It's wonderful how the tea party, like a Golem, is strangling its creator to death.

Obama and the Dems had a two year anything goes run. They didn't find it important then when they could have got it passed on their own. Instead they focused on destroying the job market and heath care in America.

Maybe some of the Latinos will remember that as well.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/u...-act-on-immigration.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&hp



My issue with this political debate is not that some Republicans are dead set against reforming immigration. My problem is the argument from the side that does want to, for political reasons, but also for political reasons do not want to do it until 2015 right before the presidential campaign. What would an immigrant family who has been waiting years to have their status recognized think if they found out it could have been done 2 years earlier but was delayed so that the Republicans could have a better image right before an election?

The transparency of the political calculation on this issue has been sickening to me. On one hand, it's good to support a good cause, no matter what your reason is. On the other hand, you should do what is right because its right, and if you get rewarded then that's a plus, but doing something right just for the reward without caring about what it was you did is kind of upsetting.

Both parties do things like this, it doesn't make it right but it happens. But I am with you, if they are going to do something about it, do it now, don't wait until just before an election. Myself, I would have to see what the bill consists of before either supporting it or not. Blanket amnesty didn't work during the Reagan era, it probably created a bigger problem. But we shall see.
 
Both parties do things like this, it doesn't make it right but it happens. But I am with you, if they are going to do something about it, do it now, don't wait until just before an election. Myself, I would have to see what the bill consists of before either supporting it or not. Blanket amnesty didn't work during the Reagan era, it probably created a bigger problem. But we shall see.

My problem with this is the unfairness to those who have applied for, and are following the law regarding citizenship, and what they must be thinking about how illegals are being given preference, simply because it's become a political decision. It must seem that we reward lawbreakers, which doesn't say a lot about this country to outsiders looking at what's going on in America! :thumbdown:
 
My problem with this is the unfairness to those who have applied for, and are following the law regarding citizenship, and what they must be thinking about how illegals are being given preference, simply because it's become a political decision. It must seem that we reward lawbreakers, which doesn't say a lot about this country to outsiders looking at what's going on in America! :thumbdown:

It was once said that what makes America different is we are a nation of laws. Not any more.
 
Because the current laws don't work. They aren't keeping the people we don't want out, and kicking the people we do want (STEM workers and foreigners who graduate from our colleges) out.

Geeeee the reason they don't work is no one wants to enforce them. Period
 
Obama and the Dems had a two year anything goes run. They didn't find it important then when they could have got it passed on their own. Instead they focused on destroying the job market and heath care in America.

Maybe some of the Latinos will remember that as well.

Don't get your hopes up. This is like Romney hoping all the polls were wrong.
 
It was once said that what makes America different is we are a nation of laws. Not any more.

It starts at the top, and goes downhill, reaching all levels of society, including many of our courts. Look at the problems many States are facing because of it. When they try to follow the laws that are on the books, they are sued by the very officials who are charged with upholding the law! You want to discuss craziness?
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/u...-act-on-immigration.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&hp



My issue with this political debate is not that some Republicans are dead set against reforming immigration. My problem is the argument from the side that does want to, for political reasons, but also for political reasons do not want to do it until 2015 right before the presidential campaign. What would an immigrant family who has been waiting years to have their status recognized think if they found out it could have been done 2 years earlier but was delayed so that the Republicans could have a better image right before an election?

The transparency of the political calculation on this issue has been sickening to me. On one hand, it's good to support a good cause, no matter what your reason is. On the other hand, you should do what is right because its right, and if you get rewarded then that's a plus, but doing something right just for the reward without caring about what it was you did is kind of upsetting.

Your talking illegal immigrant families, how about all the legal immigrants waiting for their status recognized. We have immigration laws in this country, those laws do not permit illegals to get favored status. I would suggest you look at all the legal people trying to enter this country legally and trying to get status. After you go through that drill then talk to me about the illegals that ran our fence to get in this country illegally.

Of course all that makes no difference if you want an open border, which I suspect you do.
 
It starts at the top, and goes downhill, reaching all levels of society, including many of our courts. Look at the problems many States are facing because of it. When they try to follow the laws that are on the books, they are sued by the very officials who are charged with upholding the law! You want to discuss craziness?

Then too there are those who pick and choose which laws to enforce and which ones not too. Don't like a law, just don't enforce it.
 
Though mexican immigrants get the lion share of the attention, the laws being proposed address immigration from all sources.

Sure. The lines out of certain places in Asia is just as long as the line from Mexico.

I suppose the work visa and student visa holes need plugging, don't they? Yeah, you're right.

I don't know that there is a student hole that needs plugging. I think there is a religious/clergy hole that needs plugging though. That is how a lot of Middle Easterners get their foot in the door when they otherwise couldn't.

My problem with this is the unfairness to those who have applied for, and are following the law regarding citizenship, and what they must be thinking about how illegals are being given preference, simply because it's become a political decision. It must seem that we reward lawbreakers, which doesn't say a lot about this country to outsiders looking at what's going on in America! :thumbdown:

That and the quota system has some serious racial undertones. If you are from one of the mostly white places in the world, pack your bags and buy your ticket. If you are from one of the mostly black or brown places in the world, bless your heart for wanting to visit us, but the inn is full for the next 10 years.
 
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