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Thread: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post

    Car ins. is not health ins., true statement. However, both have a component of personal responsibility not just to yourself, but to others. In car ins. you have a responsibility to carry it mandated by the state, because none of us intend to get in a wreck through our own fault and to cause damage that we can't afford to pay for. The states have determined they must compel us to do the right thing and carry a minimum level of liability to pay for damage we may cause and not have the ability to pay for.


    And this is where health insurance belongs, at the state level.
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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    No, people will not always live up to their responsibility. That is why states REQUIRE individuals with cars to carry liability insurance. The state knows that some of them will get in wrecks and not be able to pay for the damage they caused. If the state didn't require them to carry liability insurance, those people would slough off their responsibility and those that they damaged would just be screwed. There is no moral imperative to replace a car by the society, so we are not involved like we are in saving the life of a very sick person who can be saved. Unless forced by the state, many people will not do the right thing.
    Having a car is a choice, Obamacare is not a choice, you buy or get fined. That is the whole premise of Obamacare that you liberals just don't get. Then all the lies from Obama saying you can keep your insurance, period. You can keep you Dr. Period, you will save $2,500 a yr, all lies.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And this is where health insurance belongs, at the state level.
    I disagree. The states have had decades to fix the problems and they have not, save Massachusetts where Mitt Romney implemented almost exactly what Obamacare implements. The constitution charters the federal govt. to provide for the general welfare of the people, and healthcare affects all of us.

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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    I disagree. The states have had decades to fix the problems and they have not, save Massachusetts where Mitt Romney implemented almost exactly what Obamacare implements. The constitution charters the federal govt. to provide for the general welfare of the people, and healthcare affects all of us.
    Then you clearly do not understand the constitution. But, as an exercise, you are more than free to show me in article 1 section 8 where this power is.
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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    I disagree, but you point is not specified. State it clearly and I will show you why they are not in conflict.
    Try reading what you typed out over our last few exchanges. If you can understand what you wrote, you'll see you talk in circles.



    Car ins. is not health ins., true statement. However, both have a component of personal responsibility not just to yourself, but to others. In car ins. you have a responsibility to carry it mandated by the state, because none of us intend to get in a wreck through our own fault and to cause damage that we can't afford to pay for. The states have determined they must compel us to do the right thing and carry a minimum level of liability to pay for damage we may cause and not have the ability to pay for. With Health ins., none of us expect to get in a serious car accident, but some of us will, we will require a large amount of healthcare expense, and if we don't have the money to pay for it, the hospital will recoup it by rolling it into the room rates and rates for other services, so everyone else ends up paying the tab. If you go to the hospital then you are paying for those who didn't have health ins. and walked on their tab. Now the federal govt. has mandated that everyone pay for a health ins. policy or pay a penalty. The reason govt. mandates each type of ins. is so people who can pay for an ins. policy but who can't pay for the expenses they incur will have the ins. company to pay their tab instead of dumping that tab on their fellow citizens in the case of health ins.
    Do you have car insurance? If so read your policy. Most likely it has health care insurance in it for accidents (every state I've lived in requires it).

    But you end up paying for the deadbeats already. If you have health ins. your rates are higher than they need to be because the hospitals recoup the unpaid bills of the deadbeats by raising the fees for their services for everyone with the ability to pay. That causes your rates to go up if you have ins. and if you go in the hospital you pay your share on a higher rate. So, you are already paying.

    The govt. mandates ER care in the case of an emergency, but without any ability to collect if the patient is not insured and can't pay the bill. They do it because it would be immoral to allow the patient to die in that case. You are already under that moral mandate, since 1986.
    Nothing in Obamdon'tcare prevents the same from happening. And the way things are going, it's very likely fewer people end up with health insurance because of Obamadon'tcare. What's your argument going to be if that happens? And don't even pretend hospitals don't have "any ability to collect". That is anything but true.


    You're inflating the cost of the program, provide a link please.

    If you think we could fix it for less, tell us how. I have not seen this plan.
    I have inflated nothing. You look it up.

    I've seen your plan and the idiots that passed Obamadon'tcare plan. It made things worse. "We" won't "fix" it. You and I might "fix" it if we could get government out of the way.
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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    I have inflated nothing. You look it up.

    I've seen your plan and the idiots that passed Obamadon'tcare plan. It made things worse. "We" won't "fix" it. You and I might "fix" it if we could get government out of the way.
    They don't want it fixed. Its supposed to break the system.
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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    You said "You can't say people don't get the healthcare they need in a ER so they get treatment in a hospital they can't pay for", and I didn't say that. Show me my quote where I said that. You are jumbling thoughts again.
    In one sentence you didn't. But over several posts, you did. Jumble your refresh button and read what you wrote.

    You said " then say people don't get treatment without health insurance.". This is generally true, except emergency conditions will be treated and stabilized and then the patient released. There is no obligation on the hospital to provide followup treatment, so people without health ins. don't get that from a private hospital even though that may be where they were taken after a serious car accident, they were saved, stabilized, and released, then nothing from that hospital. If someone needs medical attention but it is not an emergency and they don't have insurance or the ability to pay, they will not be treated by a private hospital.

    So, I have not made any contradictory statements, and you mis-interpreted one of my statements, which is why it appears contradictory to you, but you are wrong.
    LOL. Which is it? Do people get treatment or do they not get treatment? If they do not get treatment, how do they "slough off their responsibility". LOL.

    The Harvard study is the most recent, and the article points out that the gap between insured and uninsured is growing as new treatments are made available to the insured. It makes sense that the most recent study would show the biggest difference. I encourage you to post the study you mentioned showing no difference, I don't believe it.
    That study from Oregon has been posted in this forum many times. You can look it up, it's common public knowledge. But if you do, you still won't believe it because it does not provide justification for the heavy hand of government to ruin the healthcare in America.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Having a car is a choice, Obamacare is not a choice, you buy or get fined. That is the whole premise of Obamacare that you liberals just don't get.
    Oh, we get it. While having a car is a choice, if you choose to get a car, the govt. says you must carry liability insurance.

    Having a life, or being alive, is NOT a choice, except in the extreme case of suicide in which case you will not need health ins. very much longer. So, it would make sense that since living is not a choice, you should not have a choice of whether to carry health ins. or not.

    In both cases, the imperative is exactly the same. You are required to carry ins. because there are some people who will get in a car wreck and cause damage they could never pay for, or in the case of health ins. some of them will get very sick or in a serious accident and incur expenses they never could pay for, and the govt. has determined that in both cases, you should provide a way to pay for the expenses you incur but cannot pay for. The concept is EXACTLY THE SAME.

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free
    Then all the lies from Obama saying you can keep your insurance, period. You can keep you Dr. Period, you will save $2,500 a yr, all lies.
    95% will keep their health ins. The other 5% should get a better deal.

    Over at The Washington Post, Erik Wemple takes on the curious case of Dianne Barrette, who is this minute's poster child for the evils of Obamacare:

    " More coverage may provide a deeper understanding of the ins and outs of Barrette’s situation: Her current health insurance plan, she says, doesn’t cover “extended hospital stays; it’s not designed for that,” says Barrette. Well, does it cover any hospitalization? “Outpatient only,” responds Barrette. Nor does it cover ambulance service and some prenatal care. On the other hand, says Barrette, it does cover “most of my generic drugs that I need” and there’s a $50 co-pay for doctors’ appointments. “It’s all I could afford right now,” says Barrette. In sum, it’s a pray-that-you-don’t-really-get-sick “plan.”"

    Steve Benen follows up like so:

    " If this woman had a serious ailment and was forced to stay in the hospital for a while, her old plan would have likely destroyed her financial life permanently, leaving her bankrupt. Now, thanks to “Obamacare,” in the event of a disaster, she’ll be protected with coverage her insurer can’t take away -– with no annual or lifetime caps. In other words, the new horror story for critics of the health care law features a middle-aged woman trading a bad plan for a good plan, and health care insecurity for health care security. What’s more, while much of the coverage of Barrette’s situation has focused on the higher monthly cost of her new, better insurance plan, there’s another detail that’s been overlooked by some: she’ll be eligible for subsidies under the Affordable Care Act. The cost of the coverage isn’t what she’ll actually have to pay out of her own pocket."

    Yeah, you see, that's sort of the whole point of the Affordable Care Act -- it creates health insurance exchanges where people who find themselves in this situation can get relief from situations like this, obtaining health insurance at competitive prices that offer more bang for the buck and remove the worry of people falling into crippling indebtedness because of that one time they really, really didn't want to die.

    Nevertheless, if you are someone who's received notice that you are losing your insurance coverage, that's a traumatic thing to experience, even if your insurance coverage is objectively terrible.
    What Obama Really Meant When He Said 'If You Like Your Plan, You Can Keep It'

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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Then you clearly do not understand the constitution. But, as an exercise, you are more than free to show me in article 1 section 8 where this power is.
    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
    The Supreme Court has reviewed the law and deemed in constitutional.

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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    I have inflated nothing. You look it up.
    You haven't inflated anything, you have dropped words out of my statements and mischaracterized them, and now you are afraid to provide exact quotes because you know you have mischaracterized them and I can show you that what I said is NOT what you said I said. I have no reason to look up what I said, I know what I said, and you have shortened and created an incorrect distortion of what I said. I have called you on it, and the burden is on you to show you are correct. So, show my exact statement and your characterization and I will show you your error.

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