Page 28 of 37 FirstFirst ... 182627282930 ... LastLast
Results 271 to 280 of 367

Thread: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

  1. #271
    Professor
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    11-30-13 @ 07:05 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,293

    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    That's just simple minded. If industry ran so well, there would be no need for government regulation. We found out in the 19th century about predatory corporations and the anti-trust laws were written to prevent the richest from unfairly monopolizing markets with below market pricing to force their competitors out of business, followed by raising prices once they were out of the way and raping the public. The government had to step in, and we all enjoy the benefit of fair markets where new entrants can form and provide competition. Government regulation is vital in these cases. If you can show how getting rid of mandated coverage by government gives us a better healthcare system, and you have to buy off that lack of health insurance causes thousands per year to die prematurely, I'll believe you. Show it. The goal is to improve the overall healthcare system.
    LOL. The financial industry is probably the most regulated industry there is and we should all know by now how well all those government regulations worked out. But some people insist on keeping their head stuck in the sand then demand more sand. The results of mandated government coverage should be obvious to everyone, it mandates price increases that have to be passed on to the consumer. That of course mandates excluding some percentage of the 15% (before Obamadon'tcare) of the people in America that do not have health insurance from getting health insurance because of higher prices. Of course now, present day, all the government mandates required by Obamadon'tcare has resulted in hundreds of thousands of people losing their health insurance. Right now, the simplest and best way to improve healthcare in America is drop everything about Obamadon'tcare and start over with something that might actually improve healthcare. One more thing. A study done in Oregon proved there was no real advantage to a person having heath insurance against a person that did not as far as health improvements.


    We could say the same thing about public education in this country, but the debate was held in the 19th century and we decided it fell under the authority of the government to provide for the general welfare of the nation, you know, things that are good for everyone. We are far better with a public education system where everyone can go. If you have a lot of money and you want to send your kid to a private school, go ahead. But everyone should have access to a minimum standard of education. It is no different with healthcare. Everyone should have access to a minimum standard of care (NOT UNLIMITED HEALTHCARE), and if you have a lot of money and you want to buy from a higher priced private provider, I don't see a problem with that.
    Everyone all ready had access to health care before Obamadon'tcare. But if you want to discuss education I suggest starting a new thread. Your next para discusses "minimum standard of care".


    No, the states didn't have it under control. I am only familiar with TX, but here you submit application to 3 companies and after you've gotten 3 letters of rejection, you send them to the state ins. commissioner. They send you a letter and tell you what ins. company to call and they WILL insure you, but you are NOT TOLD THE PRICE. The problem is that the price is exorbitant, and most people can't afford it. So, no, the states didn't have it handled.

    Wait times are standard on all insurance, to insure that you don't wait until an event is certain to occur and then run and get insurance to cover it at the last minute. All homeowners ins. has a 30 day waiting period, so you can't sign up for it when a hurricane is coming and it looks like you will be wiped out. You can't pay a $100 premium one month and get them to replace your $100,000 house. So, waiting periods are there to insure you are signed up and paying premiums all the time, as its the only way to insure people aren't gaming the insurance business model.

    It is the same under Obamacare, that is why it has the individual mandate. You never know when you will be in a serious car accident, or get a cancer diagnosis, and then it is too late to enter the system, start paying premiums and get the ins. co. to pay your bills.

    Healthcare means life and death in many instances, which makes it a moral issue where there is no moral issue with property insurance. Because it is a moral issue, the government passed the emergency treatment in 1986, which Reagan signed into law. Well if the hospital has to treat you, you should be required to carry ins. to pay for it, instead of sloughing off your burden on others.


    Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    LOL. The wait time "is the same under Obamacare" but it's an improvement over the old way? LOL. And "Healthcare means life and death in many instances, which makes it a moral issue" then you show where the old way required healthcare to everyone but the old way wasn't good enough. LOL. Then this gem. " you should be required to carry ins. to pay for it, instead of sloughing off your burden on others.", wake up. Obamadon'tcare sloughs off the burden to taxpayers at least to the tune of 2 trillion dollars over ten years.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

  2. #272
    Professor
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    11-30-13 @ 07:05 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,293

    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    Of course the health ins. companies have their death panels, they are the people who turn down folks for ins. coverage who have worked for years in industry and had group coverage, they are still battling cancer, they get laid off, and their next job doesn't offer health ins., and they get turned down when they apply for a private policy. They can't afford COBRA, and they can't afford the high risk pool rates where the ins. company can charge whatever they want.

    I will show that the health ins. death panels did JUST THAT, drop their insured when they got serious illnesses and cost them too much. Watch.


    Bill Moyers Journal . Testimony of Wendell Potter | PBS
    Wendell Potter is bought and paid for by George Soros. Soros never met anybody he didn't want to control because of his -ist ideology, truth be damned is what he lives by.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

  3. #273
    Professor
    finebead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 09:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,558

    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Medicare part D was a bi partisan, regular order passage. Nothing like the ACA. Was if perfect? No. Does it show that federal government shouldn't be involved in controlling the Health Insurance industry to that degree? Yes.
    Repub house, repub senate, repub white house!

    Criticisms

    By the design of the program, the federal government is not permitted to negotiate prices of drugs with the drug companies, as federal agencies do in other programs. The Department of Veterans Affairs, which is allowed to negotiate drug prices and establish a formulary, has been estimated to pay between 40%[26] and 58%[27] less for drugs, on average, than Medicare Part D. For example, the VA pays as little as $782.44 for a year's supply of Lipitor (atorvastatin) 20 mg, while the Medicare pays between $1120 and $1340 on Part D plans.[27]

    Although generic versions of [frequently prescribed to the elderly] drugs are now available, plans offered by three of the five [exemplar Medicare Part D] insurers currently exclude some or all of these drugs from their formularies.…Further, prices for the generic versions are not substantially lower than their brand-name equivalents. The lowest price for simvastatin (generic Zocor) 20 mg is 706 percent more expensive than the VA price for brand-name Zocor. The lowest price for sertraline HCl (generic Zoloft) is 47 percent more expensive than the VA price for brand-name Zoloft.
    —Families USA, No Bargain: Medicare Drug Plans Deliver High Prices[27]

    Estimating how much money could be saved if Medicare had been allowed to negotiate drug prices, economist Dean Baker gives a "most conservative high-cost scenario" of $332 billion between 2006 and 2013 (approximately $50 billion a year), and a "middle cost scenario" of $563 billion in savings "for the same budget window".[28]

    Former Congressman Billy Tauzin, R-La., who steered the bill through the House, retired soon after and took a $2 million a year job as president of Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA), the main industry lobbying group. Medicare boss Thomas Scully, who threatened to fire Medicare Chief Actuary Richard Foster if he reported how much the bill would actually cost, was negotiating for a new job as a pharmaceutical lobbyist as the bill was working through Congress.[29][30] A total of 14 congressional aides quit their jobs to work for the drug and medical lobbies immediately after the bill's passage.
    Medicare Part D - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This is just corruption on the part of repubs who steered this through. The wrote the law to help big pharma rape the taxpayers. Actually, there is NO TAX TO PAY FOR THIS AT ALL, so the repubs just ran up the deficit, now they complain that the dems are running up the deficit, but it is mostly repub screw ups from the Bush admin, and the slow recovery keeping income tax receipts low.

    At least an attempt was made by the dems to pay for Obamacare, savings in Medicare, big pharma agreed to a 10% discount on the drugs provided by Medicare part D, some new taxes in the healthcare area, and the penalty on those who go uninsured. We'll see how it turns out, but I don't see how it can be as bad to the deficit as Medicare part D was, without even a shred of an attempt to pay for it.

  4. #274
    Professor
    finebead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 09:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,558

    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    LOL. The wait time "is the same under Obamacare" but it's an improvement over the old way? LOL.
    You are taking two statements I made out of context and joining them together, which demonstrates confused and invalid logic on your part. Fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree
    And "Healthcare means life and death in many instances, which makes it a moral issue" then you show where the old way required healthcare to everyone but the old way wasn't good enough.
    Again, nothing but confused jumbled invalid logic. What I showed is federal law required EMERGENCY ROOM TREATMENT. I did NOT SAY what you just said "the old way required healthcare to everyone but the old way wasn't good enough.", you just made that up. You are really grasping for straws by attempting to alter what I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree
    LOL. Then this gem. " you should be required to carry ins. to pay for it, instead of sloughing off your burden on others.", wake up. Obamadon'tcare sloughs off the burden to taxpayers at least to the tune of 2 trillion dollars over ten years.
    There's a difference that you don't seem to get. Under the old system, many of the 50 million uninsured HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY for insurance and they don't, so if something real serious happens to them, and they can't cover the expense themselves, since they chose not to take responsibility for themselves, they slough it off on the rest of us (but they had the ability to pay for the insurance). In the new system, you are correct, some people will get nearly free health insurance, but the difference is that they DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO PAY FOR IT otherwise. Then we face the moral issue, if someone can't pay for health ins. nor the care necessary to save their life, will we, in the richest nation on earth, just allow them to die. As a society, we are voting NO, we won't let them die. Now, I believe there are limits, I don't think we can ask the society to pay unlimited bills on a limited budget, and that is where we have to make some practical choices on what type of care to pay for that everyone will have access to.

  5. #275
    Professor
    finebead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 09:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,558

    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Wendell Potter is bought and paid for by George Soros. Soros never met anybody he didn't want to control because of his -ist ideology, truth be damned is what he lives by.
    you have proof of this I am sure, so demonstrate this, like I have supported my points with articles.

  6. #276
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 03:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,272

    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    Repub house, repub senate, repub white house!


    Medicare Part D - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This is just corruption on the part of repubs who steered this through. The wrote the law to help big pharma rape the taxpayers. Actually, there is NO TAX TO PAY FOR THIS AT ALL, so the repubs just ran up the deficit, now they complain that the dems are running up the deficit, but it is mostly repub screw ups from the Bush admin, and the slow recovery keeping income tax receipts low.

    At least an attempt was made by the dems to pay for Obamacare, savings in Medicare, big pharma agreed to a 10% discount on the drugs provided by Medicare part D, some new taxes in the healthcare area, and the penalty on those who go uninsured. We'll see how it turns out, but I don't see how it can be as bad to the deficit as Medicare part D was, without even a shred of an attempt to pay for it.
    The point was, that the bill Med part D, went through the normal process. Passed the house, a different bill passed the Senate, and then went into conference committee, and came out negotiated between both houses, and passed both chambers with democrat support, and signed by the President...NOTHING like the process that the ACA went through to pass.

    But, even if you want to take that avenue to complain about Med part D, then why would you think that doing the same thing, if not worse, as in more partisan on your side with the ACA would turn out any better? Or be accepted more readily?

    As for your "trying to pay for it" statement, that is as phony as the statements Obama made selling the bill in the first place about 'if you like your insurance plan....etc.' Democrats through the likes of Ezekel Emmanuel, who btw, is well documented as being, shall we say, non sympathetic to the care of the elderly, robbed Medicare to the tune of $700 billion to pay for an expansion to Medicaid which in turn offers nothing to pay for actual mandates in the ACA, and instead will leave the states in the future with an increased burden to pick up the expense as the Federal government pulls out of their assistance that they start the plan with, so another bait and switch.

    The ACA also takes the taxation that you compare with Med part D, and puts it on steroids...

    "WASHINGTON, DC -- Obamacare contains 20 new or higher taxes on American families and small businesses. Arranged by their respective sizes according to CBO scores, below is the total list of all $500 billion-plus in tax hikes (over the next ten years) in Obamacare, their effective dates, and where to find them in the bill."

    Full List of Obamacare Tax Hikes | Congressman Jeff Duncan

    Although we can probably agree that in the area of Health Insurance, something had to be done, but this scale, this magnitude, the degree in which Progressive liberals over reached in this all but ensure its failure to come.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  7. #277
    Professor
    finebead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 09:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,558

    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The point was, that the bill Med part D, went through the normal process. Passed the house, a different bill passed the Senate, and then went into conference committee, and came out negotiated between both houses, and passed both chambers with democrat support, and signed by the President...NOTHING like the process that the ACA went through to pass.
    The point is that all this was lead by the repub house, the repub senate, and the repub president, and it was fiscally irresponsible since there was no tax to pay for it, the government was prohibited from negotiating for discounts on the drugs when even the VA gets a 50% discount, and it now adds $70 billion annually to the deficit. Its the worst piece of legislation I have seen in my lifetime in this country. The dems didn't oppose it, so yes to an extent both parties are to blame, but the repubs were in the drivers seat and they earn the biggest blame, especially Bush; he could have just vetoed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac
    But, even if you want to take that avenue to complain about Med part D, then why would you think that doing the same thing, if not worse, as in more partisan on your side with the ACA would turn out any better? Or be accepted more readily?
    The repubs shot down healthcare reform in 94 totally, they could have done something during the Bush admin if they wanted, and with the Mitch McConnell strategy of making Obama a one term president by not allowing him to pass anything, it was not politically an option. The repubs haven't stepped across the isle to help Obama with anything and they sure weren't going to do it on this. They're just a bunch of angry old men, known as the party of no. That's why, that's the political reality. It was passed the way it was because after 20 years of trying by the dems, and no effort by the repubs to do anything, it was the only way it could be passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac
    As for your "trying to pay for it" statement, that is as phony as the statements Obama made selling the bill in the first place about 'if you like your insurance plan....etc.' Democrats through the likes of Ezekel Emmanuel, who btw, is well documented as being, shall we say, non sympathetic to the care of the elderly, robbed Medicare to the tune of $700 billion to pay for an expansion to Medicaid which in turn offers nothing to pay for actual mandates in the ACA, and instead will leave the states in the future with an increased burden to pick up the expense as the Federal government pulls out of their assistance that they start the plan with, so another bait and switch.
    Link please.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac
    The ACA also takes the taxation that you compare with Med part D, and puts it on steroids...

    "WASHINGTON, DC -- Obamacare contains 20 new or higher taxes on American families and small businesses. Arranged by their respective sizes according to CBO scores, below is the total list of all $500 billion-plus in tax hikes (over the next ten years) in Obamacare, their effective dates, and where to find them in the bill."

    Full List of Obamacare Tax Hikes | Congressman Jeff Duncan
    This is about fiscal responsibility and the repubs showed NONE with the medicare part D bill, as there was NO TAX to pay for it, and it dumps $70 billion a year straight on the deficit, courtesy of George Bush, and then the repubs complain about he deficit under Obama. Does Obamacare come with taxes, sure; that's how you pay for things.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac
    Although we can probably agree that in the area of Health Insurance, something had to be done, but this scale, this magnitude, the degree in which Progressive liberals over reached in this all but ensure its failure to come.
    I agree with the bolded part, something needed to be done. Is Obamacare the best bill we could have gotten; no. If the repubs had not wanted to make Obama a one term president as their top priority per McConnell, and they had worked with the dems, we could have gotten a better bill. Once Sen. Kennedy died and Scott Walker took his seat, there was no longer a veto proof majority in the senate, so no changes could be made to the bill without one repub vote, and not one repub would work with the dems, so the house had to pass the senate bill unchanged. That's not optimum, but given the repub game of hardball, it was the only way it could happen. Republican partisanship forced this on as much as anything the dems did. I showed a Harvard study that 45,000 per year are dying pre-maturely due to being denied health insurance, and the republicans haven't lifted a finger in 2 decades to do anything about it. I guess its just because they are poor people and the republicans just don't care about poor people.
    Last edited by finebead; 10-29-13 at 03:02 AM.

  8. #278
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    (none)
    Last Seen
    04-04-15 @ 09:11 PM
    Lean
    Communist
    Posts
    6,112
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    Do you believe it is necessary to dump sick people in order for the health ins. companies to make money?
    I have started a push poll to answer this question. So far most people have answered it right. You should chime in and give us a wrong answer. I only have two wrong answers so far.

    Here is the link.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1062482924

    If you prefer you can vote in my poll about the Ceramic Doll Industry. Your answer will be identical in both polls.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...l-company.html
    Last edited by vasuderatorrent; 10-29-13 at 09:47 PM.

  9. #279
    Professor
    finebead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 09:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,558

    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent
    Yes, they do kick people off their insurance policy when they get very sick and start costing the insurance company too much. Why wouldn't they?

    Why are you having such a hard time understanding that $4,200 in dues over 1,190 years only yields $4,998,000. 1,190 years is too long to wait for a return on investment. Most people don't pay premiums for 1,190 years. How could an insurance continue to exist if they made completely mathematically absurd decisions?

    I can't comprehend this kind of thinking.
    Businesses should go broke because it's nice. Businesses shouldn't make a profit because it is mean.


    Do people really believe this stupidity? Surely not.

    vasuderatorrent

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    In order for you to assert that the profit of the private health ins. industry is more important to our national health system than the lives of the people that it is supposed to serve, you would have to prove that a private health ins. industry is even NECESSARY. England and Canada have shown that it is not even necessary to have a private health ins. industry.

    Does a health insurance company provide any actual CARE to sick people? No. Why do we need them if they are harmful to the poor and the very sick when it comes to accessing the healthcare that they need, if other countries do the job WITHOUT private health ins. at all, and they do it at 11% of GDP while the US pays 17% of GDP? Answer, we don't need them as part of our national health system. Therefore, their profit motive cannot be deemed superior to saving the lives of the sick that really need healthcare and are only being rescinded because they cost a lot. It is immoral to allow corporate america to let people die like that, and it is a prime example of the inappropriateness of putting private industry in charge of setting the rules via their death panels, on who gets to live and who has to die, based on their profit requirement to Wall St. The military is not for profit, nor should healthcare be for profit. Life and death is a moral issue, not a profit issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    I have started a push poll to answer this question. So far most people have answered it right. You should chime in and give us a wrong answer. I only have two wrong answers so far.

    Here is the link.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1062482924

    If you prefer you can vote in my poll about the Ceramic Doll Industry. Your answer will be identical in both polls.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...l-company.html
    I'll answer yours after you answer my question I posed to you several days ago. England and Canada don't use private health insurance companies in their national healthcare system, they cover everyone, and they do it for 11% of GDP vs. the US spends 17% of GDP on healthcare. Part of the US money spent is essentially a guaranteed profit to the health insurance companies that provide NO CARE to the people (the car companies and the airlines occasionally lose money, when was the last time you heard of an established health insurance company losing money? They don't. They use a system that essentially guarantees them a fat profit, while our fellow citizens die prematurely because they were denied coverage or dropped). Why do we need the health insurance companies???
    Last edited by finebead; 10-29-13 at 10:58 PM.

  10. #280
    Sage


    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    IL
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:44 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    36,762

    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    How many of these policies are fraudulent junk, like the rest of the GOP??

    Like the GOP who crash-landed the economy..

    How long did it take to overcome the Great Depression??

    Or is it, would we have recovered without a World War ?
    Physics is Phun

Page 28 of 37 FirstFirst ... 182627282930 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •