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Thread: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    What is it about liberalism that makes people that are generally intelligent, ignore simple logic?
    No, no one has ignore anything. You went off, in the ways I enumerated, without responding to what was said. You're still doing it. Address the point made or admit you only know the propaganda talking points and can't actually address points.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, no one has ignore anything. You went off, in the ways I enumerated, without responding to what was said. You're still doing it. Address the point made or admit you only know the propaganda talking points and can't actually address points.
    I am not going to address silliness.
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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    There has to be a standard, otherwise how would you determine who gets free care and who does not? Describe the system that you advocate, I may like it.

    Do you agree that the health insurance companies have had death panels for years that deny people coverage because they have a pre-existing condition, or rescind policies of people that cost them too much, and that not being able to get a health insurance policy when you have a very serious illness leads to pre-mature death?
    My standard is simple, straight and to the point. Get rid of mandated coverage by government. Unless physically or mentally disabled, if you want health insurance, figure out a way to get it (until now, that never was hard to do). Those people with legit problems should be helped by the govenrnment if needed. That pre-existing stuff you harp on was already under control. state by state. Meet the wait times, get insurance. And lets not pretend Obamadon'tcare doesn't have wait times, if you do not enroll in an open enrollment period, not much difference than before.

    The health insurance industry did not have death panels unlike Obamadon'tcare. A person got what they paid for. And once again, Obamadon'tcare does not "guarantee" coverage. Miss the window and you are stuck with no health insurance.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And this is just one state....

    [/SIZE]

    This is a disaster that was predicted, and the cancellations are dwarfing the sign ups....Thanks progressives, you are breaking the system.


    I love the idiots language... "We're just 'shifting jobs'"....

    That's like saying: You're not being "fired" - you're being "laid off."

    Do the progressives really believe that their MSM brainwashing made all of us that stupid so soon to buy such a load of **** or are these retards just dipping their toes in the water? considering half the **** that comes out of the progressive MSM or Obama and Carney I'll choose the latter ...

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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I am not going to address silliness.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    My standard is simple, straight and to the point. Get rid of mandated coverage by government.
    That's just simple minded. If industry ran so well, there would be no need for government regulation. We found out in the 19th century about predatory corporations and the anti-trust laws were written to prevent the richest from unfairly monopolizing markets with below market pricing to force their competitors out of business, followed by raising prices once they were out of the way and raping the public. The government had to step in, and we all enjoy the benefit of fair markets where new entrants can form and provide competition. Government regulation is vital in these cases. If you can show how getting rid of mandated coverage by government gives us a better healthcare system, and you have to buy off that lack of health insurance causes thousands per year to die prematurely, I'll believe you. Show it. The goal is to improve the overall healthcare system.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree
    Unless physically or mentally disabled, if you want health insurance, figure out a way to get it (until now, that never was hard to do). Those people with legit problems should be helped by the govenrnment if needed.
    We could say the same thing about public education in this country, but the debate was held in the 19th century and we decided it fell under the authority of the government to provide for the general welfare of the nation, you know, things that are good for everyone. We are far better with a public education system where everyone can go. If you have a lot of money and you want to send your kid to a private school, go ahead. But everyone should have access to a minimum standard of education. It is no different with healthcare. Everyone should have access to a minimum standard of care (NOT UNLIMITED HEALTHCARE), and if you have a lot of money and you want to buy from a higher priced private provider, I don't see a problem with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree
    That pre-existing stuff you harp on was already under control. state by state. Meet the wait times, get insurance. And lets not pretend Obamadon'tcare doesn't have wait times, if you do not enroll in an open enrollment period, not much difference than before.
    No, the states didn't have it under control. I am only familiar with TX, but here you submit application to 3 companies and after you've gotten 3 letters of rejection, you send them to the state ins. commissioner. They send you a letter and tell you what ins. company to call and they WILL insure you, but you are NOT TOLD THE PRICE. The problem is that the price is exorbitant, and most people can't afford it. So, no, the states didn't have it handled.

    Wait times are standard on all insurance, to insure that you don't wait until an event is certain to occur and then run and get insurance to cover it at the last minute. All homeowners ins. has a 30 day waiting period, so you can't sign up for it when a hurricane is coming and it looks like you will be wiped out. You can't pay a $100 premium one month and get them to replace your $100,000 house. So, waiting periods are there to insure you are signed up and paying premiums all the time, as its the only way to insure people aren't gaming the insurance business model.

    It is the same under Obamacare, that is why it has the individual mandate. You never know when you will be in a serious car accident, or get a cancer diagnosis, and then it is too late to enter the system, start paying premiums and get the ins. co. to pay your bills.

    Healthcare means life and death in many instances, which makes it a moral issue where there is no moral issue with property insurance. Because it is a moral issue, the government passed the emergency treatment in 1986, which Reagan signed into law. Well if the hospital has to treat you, you should be required to carry ins. to pay for it, instead of sloughing off your burden on others.

    The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA)[1] is a U.S. Act of Congress passed in 1986 as part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA). It requires hospitals to provide care to anyone needing emergency healthcare treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay. There are no reimbursement provisions. Participating hospitals may only transfer or discharge patients needing emergency treatment under their own informed consent, after stabilization, or when their condition requires transfer to a hospital better equipped to administer the treatment
    Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    The health insurance industry did not have death panels unlike Obamadon'tcare. A person got what they paid for. And once again, Obamadon'tcare does not "guarantee" coverage. Miss the window and you are stuck with no health insurance.
    Of course the health ins. companies have their death panels, they are the people who turn down folks for ins. coverage who have worked for years in industry and had group coverage, they are still battling cancer, they get laid off, and their next job doesn't offer health ins., and they get turned down when they apply for a private policy. They can't afford COBRA, and they can't afford the high risk pool rates where the ins. company can charge whatever they want.

    I will show that the health ins. death panels did JUST THAT, drop their insured when they got serious illnesses and cost them too much. Watch.

    June 24, 2009

    Mr. Chairman, thank you for the opportunity to be here this afternoon. My name is Wendell Potter and for 20 years, I worked as a senior executive at health insurance companies, and I saw how they confuse their customers and dump the sick — all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors.

    I know from personal experience that members of Congress and the public have good reason to question the honesty and trustworthiness of the insurance industry. Insurers make promises they have no intention of keeping, they flout regulations designed to protect consumers, and they make it nearly impossible to understand — or even to obtain — information we need. As you hold hearings and discuss legislative proposals over the coming weeks, I encourage you to look very closely at the role for-profit insurance companies play in making our health care system both the most expensive and one of the most dysfunctional in the world. I hope you get a real sense of what life would be like for most of us if the kind of so-called reform the insurers are lobbying for is enacted.

    <snip>

    A few months after I joined the health insurer CIGNA Corp. in 1993, just as the last national health care reform debate was underway, the president of CIGNA's health care division was one of three industry executives who came here to assure members of Congress that they would help lawmakers pass meaningful reform.

    Those goals included covering all Americans; eliminating underwriting practices like pre-existing condition exclusions and cherry-picking; the use of community rating; and the creation of a standard benefit plan. Had the industry followed through on its commitment to those goals, I wouldn't be here today.

    <snip>

    The average family doesn't understand how Wall Street's dictates determine whether they will be offered coverage, whether they can keep it, and how much they'll be charged for it. But, in fact, Wall Street plays a powerful role. The top priority of for-profit companies is to drive up the value of their stock.

    <snip>

    To help meet Wall Street's relentless profit expectations, insurers routinely dump policyholders who are less profitable or who get sick. Insurers have several ways to cull the sick from their rolls. One is policy rescission. They look carefully to see if a sick policyholder may have omitted a minor illness, a pre-existing condition, when applying for coverage, and then they use that as justification to cancel the policy, even if the enrollee has never missed a premium payment. Asked directly about this practice just last week in the House Energy and Commerce Committee, executives of three of the nation's largest health insurers refused to end the practice of cancelling policies for sick enrollees. Why? Because dumping a small number of enrollees can have a big effect on the bottom line. Ten percent of the population accounts for two-thirds of all health care spending. The Energy and Commerce Committee's investigation into three insurers found that they canceled the coverage of roughly 20,000 people in a five-year period, allowing the companies to avoid paying $300 million in claims.

    They also dump small businesses whose employees' medical claims exceed what insurance underwriters expected. All it takes is one illness or accident among employees at a small business to prompt an insurance company to hike the next year's premiums so high that the employer has to cut benefits, shop for another carrier, or stop offering coverage altogether — leaving workers uninsured. The practice is known in the industry as "purging." The purging of less profitable accounts through intentionally unrealistic rate increases helps explain why the number of small businesses offering coverage to their employees has fallen from 61 percent to 38 percent since 1993, according to the National Small Business Association. Once an insurer purges a business, there are often no other viable choices in the health insurance market because of rampant industry consolidation.

    An account purge so eye-popping that it caught the attention of reporters occurred in October 2006 when CIGNA notified the Entertainment Industry Group Insurance Trust that many of the Trust's members in California and New Jersey would have to pay more than some of them earned in a year if they wanted to continue their coverage. The rate increase CIGNA planned to implement, according to USA Today, would have meant that some family-plan premiums would exceed $44,000 a year. CIGNA gave the enrollees less than three months to pay the new premiums or go elsewhere.

    Purging through pricing games is not limited to letting go of an isolated number of unprofitable accounts. It is endemic in the industry. For instance, between 1996 and 1999, Aetna initiated a series of company acquisitions and became the nation's largest health insurer with 21 million members. The company spent more than $20 million that it received in fees and premiums from customers to revamp its computer systems, enabling the company to "identify and dump unprofitable corporate accounts," as The Wall Street Journal reported in 2004. Armed with a stockpile of new information on policyholders, new management and a shift in strategy, in 2000, Aetna sharply raised premiums on less profitable accounts. Within a few years, Aetna lost 8 million covered lives due to strategic and other factors.

    While strategically initiating these cost hikes, insurers have professed to be the victims of rising health costs while taking no responsibility for their share of America's health care affordability crisis. Yet, all the while, health-plan operating margins have increased as sick people are forced to scramble for insurance.

    Unless required by state law, insurers often refuse to tell customers how much of their premiums are actually being paid out in claims. A Houston employer could not get that information until the Texas legislature passed a law a few years ago requiring insurers to disclose it. That Houston employer discovered that its insurer was demanding a 22 percent rate increase in 2006 even though it had paid out only 9 percent of the employer's premium dollars for care the year before.
    Bill Moyers Journal . Testimony of Wendell Potter | PBS
    Last edited by finebead; 10-27-13 at 11:37 PM.

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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    Of course the health ins. companies have their death panels, they are the people who turn down folks for ins. coverage who have worked for years in industry and had group coverage, they are still battling cancer, they get laid off, and their next job doesn't offer health ins., and they get turned down when they apply for a private policy. They can't afford COBRA, and they can't afford the high risk pool rates where the ins. company can charge whatever they want.

    I will show that the health ins. death panels did JUST THAT, drop their insured when they got serious illnesses and cost them too much. Watch.


    Bill Moyers Journal . Testimony of Wendell Potter | PBS

    It is a very scary thing to be diagnosed with something like isolated ventricular non-compaction.

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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Oh stop....Good grief, I mean really, it sounds just like listening to the democrat congress critter on the sunday show I listened to this morning.

    Look, There are individual problems with the system we had, like Pre existing condition cancellations, does that mean that we needed to have a 2700 page bill, now law that no one can read through without a law degree, not to mention 80,000 new regulations? There is **** hidden in this law that is going to absolutely kill health care in this country, and severely attack capitalism at its core.

    Tell me why the 70 year old couple needs maternity care? You can't. This is absurd.
    You're right, there are problems with the existing system and they needed to be fixed. Republicans controlled the congress from 1994 until 2006 and what did they do? NOTHING. They had the whole ball of wax from 2001 to 2006 and what did they do to improve healthcare, only give us Medicare part D, with NO TAX TO PAY FOR IT AT ALL, the GOVT. CANNOT NEGOTIATE FOR DISCOUNTS ON DRUGS in Medicare, although the VA gets a 50% discount, and it now puts $70 billion a year right on the deficit. Pathetic job by the republicans. Do I trust the repubs to fix healthcare, absolutely NOT.

    Does a 70 year old couple need maternity benefit, no, but they are on Medicare anyhow. But a 60 year old couple will pay more than the 20 year old couple, and it has to do with the probability of cancer or heart disease anyhow, not maternity.

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    Re: Florida Blue cutting 300K policies

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    You're right, there are problems with the existing system and they needed to be fixed. Republicans controlled the congress from 1994 until 2006 and what did they do? NOTHING. They had the whole ball of wax from 2001 to 2006 and what did they do to improve healthcare, only give us Medicare part D, with NO TAX TO PAY FOR IT AT ALL, the GOVT. CANNOT NEGOTIATE FOR DISCOUNTS ON DRUGS in Medicare, although the VA gets a 50% discount, and it now puts $70 billion a year right on the deficit. Pathetic job by the republicans. Do I trust the repubs to fix healthcare, absolutely NOT.

    Does a 70 year old couple need maternity benefit, no, but they are on Medicare anyhow. But a 60 year old couple will pay more than the 20 year old couple, and it has to do with the probability of cancer or heart disease anyhow, not maternity.
    Medicare part D was a bi partisan, regular order passage. Nothing like the ACA. Was if perfect? No. Does it show that federal government shouldn't be involved in controlling the Health Insurance industry to that degree? Yes.

    As for Repubs not doing anything to address Health care in general? The agenda is not for demo's to decide for repubs. Just as you don't want us setting your agenda, right?

    And the example I gave of 70 Year olds and maternity care, may have been off, I am not sure of the age, but it was certainly old enough to still have private insurance, and not need things like that which drive costs of the plans up.

    It amazes me that such diametrically opposed statements to fact are being argued by demo's these days with straight faces. Such as...."We will insure 30 million more people, and costs will go down." or, "We need to pass the bill before we can see what is in the bill", or, my personal favorite these days when talking about why we, as conservatives, or repubs should stop fighting over this, "Just give it a chance...." etc.

    At every step, Obama, Reid, Pelosi, and the others are just not truthful about this entire thing. Masking their intentions in rhetoric, blame, and obfuscation are not signs of someone we can trust to do the right thing on our behalf.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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