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Thread: Shackled and pregnant: Wis. case challenges 'fetal protection' law [W:93]

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    Shackled and pregnant: Wis. case challenges 'fetal protection' law [W:93]

    When Alicia Beltran was 12 weeks pregnant, she took herself to a health clinic about a mile from her home in Jackson, Wis., for a prenatal checkup. But what started as a routine visit ended with Beltran eventually handcuffed and shackled in government custody – and at the center of a first-of-its-kind federal lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of a state’s fetal protection law.
    Shackled and pregnant: Wis. case challenges 'fetal protection' law - U.S. News

    This is the logical conclusion of the misguided belief that fetuses have rights. It is impossible to give rights to a being growing inside a person's body without violating that person's rights.

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    re: Shackled and pregnant: Wis. case challenges 'fetal protection' law [W:93]

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    It is impossible to give rights to a being growing inside a person's body without violating that person's rights.
    Rights are commonly weighed against each other and violated. That's how it works. Are you under the impression that rights are never justly violated?

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    re: Shackled and pregnant: Wis. case challenges 'fetal protection' law [W:93]

    If a fetus is found to be causing harm to its mother, will it be tried as an adult or a minor? If it is tried as a minor and found guilty, will it be sent to a juvenile detention center? If it is tried as an adult, is execution on the table if the transgression is severe enough? Will it exercise its right to choose counsel? I'm just asking - considering a fetus is a person and all. I'd like to know just how a fetus, being a person and all, is supposed to be punished if it is found to be harming its mother.
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    re: Shackled and pregnant: Wis. case challenges 'fetal protection' law [W:93]

    This is one of the most insane things I've ever seen. The mindset that a woman has an obligation to breed just makes no sense whatsoever. That fetuses have any value on their own makes no sense whatsoever. That anyone has the right to control another person in something so fundamental and personal as carrying a child makes no sense whatsoever.

    The disrespect for women that this sort of thing demonstrates is just plain depressing.
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    re: Shackled and pregnant: Wis. case challenges 'fetal protection' law [W:93]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    If a fetus is found to be causing harm to its mother, will it be tried as an adult or a minor? If it is tried as a minor and found guilty, will it be sent to a juvenile detention center? If it is tried as an adult, is execution on the table if the transgression is severe enough? Will it exercise its right to choose counsel? I'm just asking - considering a fetus is a person and all. I'd like to know just how a fetus, being a person and all, is supposed to be punished if it is found to be harming its mother.
    According to the OP article, fetus gets a state appointed lawyer, mother does not.

    And damn, every time I thought the story was as ridiculous as it could get, it got worse.
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    re: Shackled and pregnant: Wis. case challenges 'fetal protection' law [W:93]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Rights are commonly weighed against each other and violated. That's how it works. Are you under the impression that rights are never justly violated?
    Wait a minute so you are ok with rights being violated as long as it is something you agree with?

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    re: Shackled and pregnant: Wis. case challenges 'fetal protection' law [W:93]

    If she had taken responsiblity and ceased her addiction, how could she be harming her baby? I believe that a pre-born human does have rights and it appears to me that she was doing what she thought was best for herself and her baby, so I fail to see the problem. I also don't understand how she was not given a court-appointed lawyer as I thought, from watching American shows, that this is an essential part of your justice system. I guess I was wrong. Australians do not have an automatic right to have a lawyer provided by the court, but a judge (I think) has to postpone a case until a person can find legal representaion.
    We also don't have a Bill of Rights (thank goodness).

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    re: Shackled and pregnant: Wis. case challenges 'fetal protection' law [W:93]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Wait a minute so you are ok with rights being violated as long as it is something you agree with?
    Justly "violated". For example, one cannot yell fire in a crowded theater.

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    re: Shackled and pregnant: Wis. case challenges 'fetal protection' law [W:93]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Justly "violated". For example, one cannot yell fire in a crowded theater.
    So you think it's "justily" to violate the rights of a woman and force her to carry to term with physical and mental changes that a man does not have to endure?

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    re: Shackled and pregnant: Wis. case challenges 'fetal protection' law [W:93]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    So you think it's "justily" to violate the rights of a woman and force her to carry to term with physical and mental changes that a man does not have to endure?
    I do not support a ban on abortion.

    I do, however, point out that pretending the "violation" of rights is something terrible is nonsense, as the balancing of rights and thus restriction of them is inherent to society and the basis of our justice system. People's rights are "violated" (read: restricted) all the time, it's nothing new.

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