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Thread: Democrat Manchin Breaks Ranks to Back Mandate Delay..... [W:31]

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    Re: Democrat Manchin Breaks Ranks to Back Mandate Delay..... [W:31]

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    West Virginia at the moment is just about as red as any red state can get. Manchin is a conservative democrat who just happened to win in a state where Democrats have no business winning. If Bloomberg wants his seat, I thought he was Mayor of NYC who hasn't much common sense to begin with IMO, he'll have to wait until the election in November of 2018 to challenge him.

    I do not think even Senator Reid will give Manchin a hard time, Reid is a smart politician and party loyalest. He knows Machin means one vote for his continued senate leadership position and it is better to have a Manchin coming from West Virginia who will vote with the Democrats 70% of the time than a Republican coming from West Virginia who will always vote against the Democrats 100% of the time. This fact is something the Republican Party has lost track of. In choosing their senate candidate, in a few states none of the GOP party members have really given winning in the general election enough thought. Look at Indiana and Missouri last year, to a lesser extent North Dakota and Montana.
    WV isn't nearly so red as its Kentucky neighbors. They expanded medicaid I think even further than was anticipated IIRC. Coal Jobs v, Environment are always present in their politics, with neither side ever being the clear winner. They have some very pro-victim and pro-worker laws. There are some pretty effed up things in WV law too like I could not even come into the state to depose a witness in my capacity as a lawyer without being licensed in the state or hiring a WV lawyer to file an ancillary lawsuit in that state just for the purpose of conducting a freaking deposition without being guilty of unauthorized practice of law. They are definitely poor conservative oriented--it is just a matter of how the arguments are framed to them.

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    Re: Democrat Manchin Breaks Ranks to Back Mandate Delay..... [W:31]

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    You have never not cared..
    You continue to care by discussing ACA..

    Stalin would have just murdered them..
    How many tens of millions dead??
    Stalinist comparisons from you??
    You are ignoring 100% with this statement at Repub peril that disaffected Dem groups did not vote, mid-terms are always a loss for POTUS and TEArabble had formed by FOX..
    You also ignore negative Repub onslaught from day one of their idea .
    Perhaps you are right on my caring, I was at Ft. Campbell watching C-Span at the time when all this occured. All I could do was shake my head. Is this what this country become, all about party and not the people. Shouldn't the representatives represent the people in their district, not their party. Shouldn't senators represent the people of their state and not their party. Sure they get elected as Republicans and Democrats, but doesn't the wishes of the people mean anything? Doesn't the wishes of those who sent them to Washington count for anything? Apparently not, the only thing that counts is the Republican Party or the Democratic Party's agenda. If that is not what the people want, to heck with them.

    I was basically against the two major parties since my time with Perot, that reinforced it. That maybe why I voted third party in 5 of the last 6 elections. You see, I can remember when the elected officials pretty much voted in line with the wishes of the people back home. When the tea party came along, I thought they were special as kindred souls fighting for reduction to the debt, not anymore. They too can go fly a kite. Sorry about the Stalin reference, but I was on a rant. But when a political party will more or less force some members to vote directly against the very people they represent, that got me mad and yes, I still haven't gotten over that. In fact for the first time in my life I was one who voted a stright Republican ticket in 2010.

    The Republicans ain't no better at times, there was always a Snowe, perhaps a McCain, a Collins, a Luger, and a few more that seemed to buck their party when the GOP tried the samething. Perhaps Pelosi and Reid were just better at the strong arm tactics.

    Yeah I hear about those who didn't vote, but they were mad at being ignored either. That must be normal, only around 30% of the people vote in mid term elections vs. 55% in presidential.

    Maybe I am just too old fashioned as I believe one can elected a republican or a democrat, but they are sent to washington to represent the people who elected them.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Democrat Manchin Breaks Ranks to Back Mandate Delay..... [W:31]

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Obama did not have the same chance to bomb Syria as Bush/Cheney had to go to Iraq..
    Because of the way Bush/Cheney handled the Iraqi war..

    Wow--just heard the Sheldon Adelson tape, another Republican Billionaire donor .
    Both parties have them. Adelson if I am not mistaken gave Gingrich around 3 or 4 million to continue his presidential campaign against Romney. I never heard of him before gave Newt all that money.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Democrat Manchin Breaks Ranks to Back Mandate Delay..... [W:31]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    WV isn't nearly so red as its Kentucky neighbors. They expanded medicaid I think even further than was anticipated IIRC. Coal Jobs v, Environment are always present in their politics, with neither side ever being the clear winner. They have some very pro-victim and pro-worker laws. There are some pretty effed up things in WV law too like I could not even come into the state to depose a witness in my capacity as a lawyer without being licensed in the state or hiring a WV lawyer to file an ancillary lawsuit in that state just for the purpose of conducting a freaking deposition without being guilty of unauthorized practice of law. They are definitely poor conservative oriented--it is just a matter of how the arguments are framed to them.
    I understand. So much is all depended on how an argument is framed.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Democrat Manchin Breaks Ranks to Back Mandate Delay..... [W:31]

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I don't know Linc. I just can't get it out of my head the way it was passed. No matter if the ACA turned out to be the best thing that ever happened, I will remember the bribes, the so called LA purchase or cornhusker kickback. The extra arm twisting, the threats, the bribes to get it passed. I think this is why I dislike McCaskill too, 60% of Missourians said no, she voted yea and on and on. The threats of no campaign cash unless you vote yea, no one can ever say this bill passed on its merits regardless if you were for or against. Pelosi's ridiculous statement, you must pass it before you can read it or something there abouts.

    At that point I stopped caring about what was in it, whether it was good or bad. In fact I refused to read it. Stalin would have been proud of the strong arm tactic used. So I became a poll watcher and more interested in whether the ACA would effect elections results. the fact the democrats feel they could get a bill passed over the objections of 55% of the people when only about 35% were for it, I suppose they feel very proud about that. McCaskill, Nelson, Landreiu, Pryor and a few more all represented states where 60% of the people of their state were telling them no. But as I have stated, they told the people who voted for them, who elected them to stick it where the sun don't shine.

    As a result of not listening to the people 2010 happened. Then came the reluctant acceptance that the law ain't going away. 2012 was a status quo election. The republicans couldn't give the people enough reasons to change what they had. It is true I would rather continue on with Obama than Romney, but I could never vote for either. One business as usual candidate is as good as the next, so you might as well stick with the devil you have than the devil you don't know. But I did know and Romney I didn't trust.

    sorry about the rant.
    I don't consider that stating the truth is ranting! And what you posted is what have a large percentage of Americans shaking their heads in frustration for the way this was handled! Pelosi's statement was one of the most ridiculous I have ever heard...basically she said it's a secret surprise that you won't know about until you agree beforehand to accept i!t I don't know any four-year old kids that would agree to something like that, cause all surprises aren't fun, and they know it even at that age! :

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    Re: Democrat Manchin Breaks Ranks to Back Mandate Delay..... [W:31]

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    I don't consider that stating the truth is ranting! And what you posted is what have a large percentage of Americans shaking their heads in frustration for the way this was handled! Pelosi's statement was one of the most ridiculous I have ever heard...basically she said it's a secret surprise that you won't know about until you agree beforehand to accept i!t I don't know any four-year old kids that would agree to something like that, cause all surprises aren't fun, and they know it even at that age! :
    I think I am getting way too old for today's politics. I believe a representative or senator should represent those who sent them to Washington first and political party second. That is suppose to be what it is all about. Giving the people a say. But it does seem party politics has won in a big, big way.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Democrat Manchin Breaks Ranks to Back Mandate Delay..... [W:31]

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I understand. So much is all depended on how an argument is framed.
    West Virginians are easily offended so it is all about how you frame it. I have relatives in WV, and own an old farm there i.e. a stand of woods on a big creek they called a river where my great grandparents farm used to be that my mother made me buy when it was for sale for practically nothing because it almost takes a helicopter to even reach it is so off the beaten path down dirt road after dirt road of fallen trees, ruts, and hills. I have only been out to it once, but one of my uncles and his buddies will go up there from NC a few times a year and ATV in to camp and hunt a few days at a time or my cousins from another part of WV will drive over to it for a day. Pretty place, but there is no economy there to speak of.

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    Re: Democrat Manchin Breaks Ranks to Back Mandate Delay..... [W:31]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    West Virginians are easily offended so it is all about how you frame it. I have relatives in WV, and own an old farm there i.e. a stand of woods on a big creek they called a river where my great grandparents farm used to be that my mother made me buy when it was for sale for practically nothing because it almost takes a helicopter to even reach it is so off the beaten path down dirt road after dirt road of fallen trees, ruts, and hills. I have only been out to it once, but one of my uncles and his buddies will go up there from NC a few times a year and ATV in to camp and hunt a few days at a time or my cousins from another part of WV will drive over to it for a day. Pretty place, but there is no economy there to speak of.
    The days of a self-sufficient farm is pretty well gone. Heck the family farm has disappeared too.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Democrat Manchin Breaks Ranks to Back Mandate Delay..... [W:31]

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    The days of a self-sufficient farm is pretty well gone. Heck the family farm has disappeared too.
    They still exist. It very often requires the farmers to live on not much more than minimum wage level salaries unless they are large operations. We have several in my area that have adopted some interesting business models like turning ponds into fish farms; the subscribe to the box o'veg clubs; and the like.

    This particular farm literally is woods now. The GGP's moved out when they got old, it was sold to someone who used it as a retreat for awhile before it ended up in the hands of someone whom I was told timbered it at least once. Other than remnants of old foundations and an old well that my uncle knows where it is but I have no clue, there is nothing on it now but trees and some open spots along the water where floods have kept the trees back. I have zero interest in the place, but if having the old homestead my mom can remember as a little girl loving to visit back in the family makes her happy, I will hold onto it and hope that one day Bigfoot is spotted on the place discovering Gold or something so I can make the money back. Really one of my brothers wants it when he retires to build a home on, so I am going to bleed him dry when the time comes.

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    Re: Democrat Manchin Breaks Ranks to Back Mandate Delay..... [W:31]

    See that little blue dot just to the right of center on the first chart in the link below? Thats Sen. Manchin...and he's the only blue dot that is to the right of center in the senate.......


    https://www.govtrack.us/about/analysis#ideology

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