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'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

humbolt said:
Nah, it's because you're giddy over the problems. Nobody, not even Obama knew there would be problems. Nobody but Max Baucus knew. He was the only-est one. And the software engineers. They knew. And Sebelius. And the insurance providers. But other than that, nobody knew.
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Oh you are so wrong. I am not giddy about the problem. I WANTED this to go into full effect. I believe the GOP screwed themselves over by not INSISTING that it be FULLY implemented, including the business mandate. The sooner the better.

As for the rest of it...yeah...I see what you did there... ;)
 
polgara said:
I don't feel so alone any more! You can't imagine my relief! :mrgreen:
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There's security in numbers. You are part of a vast group who didn't know what they didn't know until somebody (bless his or her heart) told them they didn't know. So now you know all that you don't. It's all a part of the Baseline Budget Theory extension that determines that if you spent too much last year on this or that program, you'll only spend 4% more this year than last in an austerity effort. Makes perfect sense.
 
VanceMack said:
Oh you are so wrong. I am not giddy about the problem. I WANTED this to go into full effect. I believe the GOP screwed themselves over by not INSISTING that it be FULLY implemented, including the business mandate. The sooner the better.

As for the rest of it...yeah...I see what you did there... ;)
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I was kidding. Anybody who couldn't see this train wreck coming is willfully blind. I also agree that the GOP should've let the thing go without objection. In fact, in order to help things along with the rollout, I would insist that the penalties be applied for this year's taxes just to help with the solvency issue.
 
ItAin'tFree said:
I've read it was $640 million for this disaster web site the Dems built and wasted the taxpayers money on.
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Again, I have to say, how long will the left and buddies accept this excuse from the president??? Oh, I didn't know. I just read about it in the paper. Uh, the dog ate my homework. I mean, there seems to be no bounds on the level of incompetence that they will accept from this no nothing president.

Especially when it is beyond believability that they just threw the switch on 10/1 and were expecting everything to work. Please, please, please, tell me that you are not falling for that one. You need to be institutionalized if you are that dysfunctional.
 
Anthony60 said:
Well, you are treading dangerously close to being one
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Only if you consider "the left" to have a strangehold on facts and logic.

Example... there was almost no chance of us defaulting on our debt, unless Obama took action to do so. I'm sure you've heard bye now that the debt requires around $20 billion a month, compared to $220 billion coming in. Use your common sense.
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My common sense says A) this comment is completely off-topic and B) you listen to way too much conservative media.

ItAin'tFree said:
LOL. You really need to consider a different spin because the one you are trying, has fallen flat on it's face. Or just fess up and say what is obvious to everyone except hard core Dems, Cruz was right.
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It never ceases to amaze me how the diehard Republicans consider facts to be spin.

VanceMack said:
Its ever and always the way with people like you. We see it right here on this site. Conservatives disagree with Obama policies and people like you rage on that it is only because they are partisan
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Because Republicans have proven it is. It doesn't matter what the issue, it doesn't matter if Republicans have to change their position on the issue, if Obama supports it, Republicans will be against it. Why? It's either because their stupid or because they are appealing to an electorate which wants them to oppose the Democrat. Either way, it doesn't shine well on Republicans.

But when the liberals on this site disagree with Obama...well...that is because it is a well thought out and conscious 'honest' disagreement.
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But the Democrats are not disagreeing with Obama. In fact, Obama just today announced they would delay the enforcement.

How someone can sit there and not see the difference between arguing for a delay as part of their long-known plan to get rid of Obamacare versus a very new development to delay the enforcement because of a malfunctioning website is beyond me. The only way it's possible for you to not see the difference is if you're playing team politics.
Erod said:
This is correct.

Building a website like this is kindergarten for IT folks.
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Oh really? Do explain how you know this.

ItAin'tFree said:
I've read it was $640 million for this disaster web site the Dems built and wasted the taxpayers money on.
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You read a number which was deliberately misleading. If you do more research, you'll see that $640 million is the amount of money this group made for contracted work over many years, not just on this web site.

Now, I suspect you'll deny it, because you don't strike me as the person who will let facts get in the way of a good partisan attack, but the figures are out there if you'd like. I'll even post information from a source which has absolutely no reason to try and lower the number:

CGI Federal announced in 2011 that it had been awarded a $93.7 million contract with the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services to build the federal health insurance exchange, healthcare.gov, which formally launched on Oct. 1, 2013.

Digital Trends called the $93.7 million estimate a “chunk of change, but nothing near where it
apparently ended up.”
But an official at CGI told TheBlaze those saying the federal heath insurance exchange cost $634 million are incorrect. The official said this figure includes all of the company’s contracts for a Health and Human Services Department program over the last seven years, covering 114 transactions. The cost of building healthcare.gov was issued under this contract.
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Rumor Check: Obamacare Website Might Be Glitchy, But It Didn’t Cost $634 Million | TheBlaze.com
 
cpwill said:
There is literally no way that we will be able to collect enough taxes to cover Medicare as it is currently structured. Under no tax structure in the history of the United States of America have we ever managed to collect the kinds of taxes that would allow Medicare at its' current structure to survive the 2020s. Expanding Medicare under any tax structure with any rates in the manner that you are describing will only collapse the system immediately instead of in the future.

And not that far in the future, either. Those comments about the 2020s are assuming that Congress basically eventually caves on funding the ACA over Medicare.

Medicare Trustees: Medicare Will Go Broke in 2024. Unless You Discount The ACA's Double-Counting. Then It Goes Broke in 2016.



Higher deductibles will absolutely re-introduce cost sensitivity and have the effect of putting downward pressure on prices.

Problem: Higher Deductibles are "mean", and "some care should be 'free'". Telling people that they need to suck up the cost of their healthcare when the political rewards go to the folks who promise free preventative, free birth control, free for the old, free for the poor, free for the young, is going to be a losing proposition.

But if we were to put America on a high-deductible, catastrophic care only market, that would indeed go far towards reducing the prices we pay for healthcare. It's just that (at current) the government cannot afford to do that itself.



I goofed this - the 64 figure in my head was the combined unfunded liability for our entitlements, not Medicare.

Medicare's Unfunded Liability, as of April 2012, was $38.6 Trillion. And, (again) is currently scheduled to go broke in either three or eleven years, depending on whether or not we keep the ACA as it is currently structured.



That is precisely what I am saying - unless we are willing to basically tell old people who cannot afford care to go home and die, we aren't going to be able to expand Medicare as you envision. We aren't willing to do that (old people vote).



Yeah. Paul Ryan suggested something like that, and Mitt Romney ran on it. How'd that go over?



.
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Canada does it all very nicely and so do other first world countries. But you're probably right abou the US continuing to do it the way it has. The US wastes nearly as much as it spends on health care and it can't even do it for all the people. Canada does it for roughly half as much per capita.

Your problem is that you have a bunch of teabaggers who are too involved with racist hate for your president to even consider how it can be done correctly and cost efficiently. If they stopped frothing at the mouth with their rabid hate for a while your government could start to bring it's fiscal house in order again.
 
Michael66 said:
Canada does it all very nicely and so do other first world countries. But you're probably right abou the US continuing to do it the way it has. The US wastes nearly as much as it spends on health care and it can't even do it for all the people. Canada does it for roughly half as much per capita.

Your problem is that you have a bunch of teabaggers who are too involved with racist hate for your president to even consider how it can be done correctly and cost efficiently. If they stopped frothing at the mouth with their rabid hate for a while your government could start to bring it's fiscal house in order again.
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Canada has 35 million people and this country has 310 million. It also has 50 sovereign states. It is amazing how people like you ignore the waste, fraud, and abuse in Medicare and SS and then promote ACA which is another entitlement program that is based upon lies.

I don't know what it is about people like you who ignore the incompetence of this Administration simply because you buy the ideology. Failure is failure regardless of the ideology. How anyone can say that an Administration that has added 6.4 trillion to the debt is bringing its fiscal house in order is simply liberalism at its worst
 
Slyfox696 said:
Only if you consider "the left" to have a strangehold on facts and logic.
My common sense says A) this comment is completely off-topic and B) you listen to way too much conservative media.
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Yep, you're a liberal. Classic loss of a grasp on reality, and inability to address the facts.
 
Anthony60 said:
Yep, you're a liberal. Classic loss of a grasp on reality, and inability to address the facts.
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Again, I'm only a liberal if you consider things like common sense and facts to be liberal. Not addressing your off-topic comment which fails to understand the regulations and obligations of the federal government is not an "inability to address the facts".
 
Slyfox696 said:
You read a number which was deliberately misleading. If you do more research, you'll see that $640 million is the amount of money this group made for contracted work over many years, not just on this web site.

Now, I suspect you'll deny it, because you don't strike me as the person who will let facts get in the way of a good partisan attack, but the figures are out there if you'd like. I'll even post information from a source which has absolutely no reason to try and lower the number:


Rumor Check: Obamacare Website Might Be Glitchy, But It Didn’t Cost $634 Million | TheBlaze.com
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Unlike an Obama supporter, I'm always willing to run with the facts. To bad the Blaze ended up with this when they tried to find out how much taxpayer money the Obama administration wasted on the disaster they created: " Neither the White House nor the Office of Budget and Management immediately returned requests for comment from TheBlaze about the cost of the website and fixing the system’s glitches"

Maybe they didn't waste $640 million on that trashed site so far. But pardon me if I don't jump for joy that they only wasted $100 million of taxpayer money, if that's all they spent. I doubt it that's the real tab.

But please keep trying to spin this disaster of the Obama administration as a positive. It's great comedy.
 
ItAin'tFree said:
Unlike an Obama supporter, I'm always willing to run with the facts. To bad the Blaze ended up with this when they tried to find out how much taxpayer money the Obama administration wasted on the disaster they created: " Neither the White House nor the Office of Budget and Management immediately returned requests for comment from TheBlaze about the cost of the website and fixing the system’s glitches"

Maybe they didn't waste $640 million on that trashed site so far. But pardon me if I don't jump for joy that they only wasted $100 million of taxpayer money, if that's all they spent. I doubt it that's the real tab.
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You're willing to run with facts...and yet, you doubt it when the facts have been reported. Got it.

But please keep trying to spin this disaster of the Obama administration as a positive. It's great comedy.
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I'm not spinning anything. The website is awful, no doubt about it. And it's because of the terrible quality that Democrats/Obama are looking to temporarily delay enforcing the penalties for not signing up in time.

Again, you seem to misunderstand presenting facts as "spin".
 
Slyfox696 said:
You're willing to run with facts...and yet, you doubt it when the facts have been reported. Got it.

I'm not spinning anything. The website is awful, no doubt about it. And it's because of the terrible quality that Democrats/Obama are looking to temporarily delay enforcing the penalties for not signing up in time.

Again, you seem to misunderstand presenting facts as "spin".
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I am still laughing over your insinuation that logic and facts are liberal tools. I have yet to see those so called logc and facts on full display here as most liberals want to divert from the Obama record.
 
If Obama delays, he was wrong..
If he doesn't delay, he is wrong..
See how that narrative works??
What's it like to work against something 24/7, instead of for it ?
 
NIMBY said:
If Obama delays, he was wrong..
If he doesn't delay, he is wrong..
See how that narrative works??
What's it like to work against something 24/7, instead of for it ?
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Obama was wrong for not negotiating with the House on a delay because our campaigner in chief has zero leadership skills.

Obama makes it easy to be against him as the results give us all we need.
 
Slyfox696 said:
Agreed. But the Republicans desire to delay was to achieve their political position of repealing it. The Democrat desire for delay (which I just saw on TV the Obama Administration has given citizens an extra 6 weeks to sign up) is to be fair to citizens who are required to sign up.
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Yes. Republicans want to ultimately to repeal Obamacare because they believe it is unfair to the citizenry. Democrats want to delay because they think that keeping the mandate after the disaster of a roll-out would be unfair to the citizenry.

There are partisan advantages to the delay for both sides, just as both sides also are now coming to the belief that delay would be best for the American people. For you to ignore the partisan motive for Democrats (which is indeed there) and the desire for good policy on the part of Republicans (which is indeed there) is a partisan hackery move, and you are better than it.
 
Michael66 said:
Canada does it all very nicely and so do other first world countries. But you're probably right abou the US continuing to do it the way it has. The US wastes nearly as much as it spends on health care and it can't even do it for all the people. Canada does it for roughly half as much per capita.
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Rationing isn't good for much, but it is indeed good for keeping down expenditures. What was it that the Supreme Court there said when they struck down part of the law in order to allow Canadians to escape their health system? "Access to a waiting list is not access to healthcare".

Your problem is that you have a bunch of teabaggers who are too involved with racist hate for your president
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You don't give a location, so I'm just going to go with you aren't from the US and therefore can't be blamed if you don't know what you are talking about. Your description of the Tea Party movement is about as accurate as if I were to describe the Labour movement in Britain as a group of Neo-Nazis.
 
Slyfox696 said:
You're willing to run with facts...and yet, you doubt it when the facts have been reported. Got it.
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Even if it was 10k of tax payer money, the thing does not work, and the only real way to make it work would be to restart from scratch.


I'm not spinning anything. The website is awful, no doubt about it. And it's because of the terrible quality that Democrats/Obama are looking to temporarily delay enforcing the penalties for not signing up in time.

Again, you seem to misunderstand presenting facts as "spin".
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So, where are your calls for heads to roll on this one??

We should be looking for stupidity, incompetence and corruption and all responsible should face a jury... Simple...

Then again, there are some that seem to feel that rule of law is an archaic concept best discarded in the name of progress. (not necessarily you)
 
Slyfox696 said:
You're willing to run with facts...and yet, you doubt it when the facts have been reported. Got it.

I'm not spinning anything. The website is awful, no doubt about it. And it's because of the terrible quality that Democrats/Obama are looking to temporarily delay enforcing the penalties for not signing up in time.

Again, you seem to misunderstand presenting facts as "spin".
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LOL. You provide an example of what one company claims to have been paid and think that is the total cost? LOL. Then you cite TheBlaze yet they claim the government did not provide them the total cost of the project, LOL.

You're spinning everything. The website didn't crash after Sen Cruz called for a delay. He had the right idea all along while your clowns put on political theater.
 
ItAin'tFree said:
LOL. You provide an example of what one company claims to have been paid and think that is the total cost? LOL. Then you cite TheBlaze yet they claim the government did not provide them the total cost of the project, LOL.

You're spinning everything. The website didn't crash after Sen Cruz called for a delay. He had the right idea all along while your clowns put on political theater.
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Absolutely spot on! Demo's wanted NO involvement from repubs during the crafting of the bill, that btw, in addition to insurance companies being involved, much like the fox being given the key to the henhouse, a large part of the bill, that has yet to be imposed are the components that didn't involve insurance companies.

Involvement of Van Jones, and his "Apollo alliance" group in writing key parts of this bill are designed to specifically attack capitalism, and go after this as a top down control of a large piece of the economy, and peoples lives.

Bills should not be this long. 2700 pages that no one really understands until you start implementing it, and by then it's too late, or so is the hope by progressives.
 
NIMBY said:
If Obama delays, he was wrong..
If he doesn't delay, he is wrong..
See how that narrative works??
What's it like to work against something 24/7, instead of for it ?
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Yes, we see how that narrative works. That's what happens when people insist on making a bad idea law. This disaster cannot be corrected with additional time or money, it will just be another example of government throwing good money after bad.
 
Delays in a CR, brought to you by the GOP..
Boehner puts a Farm bill on the floor, the TEAcaucus forces him to pull it..
Same with Transportation..where are the jobs Boehner ?
 
NIMBY said:
Delays in a CR, brought to you by the GOP..
Boehner puts a Farm bill on the floor, the TEAcaucus forces him to pull it..
Same with Transportation..where are the jobs Boehner ?
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Obama and the Dems got rid of those. But you can visit a web site they created, to bad it doesn't work though. As expected and predicted in the rare case of a democrat talking and not lying.
 
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