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'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

That's the reason I'm apprehensive about the whole mess! Can someone tell me why so many new IRS agents were hired so early? We're paying their salaries, and the damn thing hasn't even gone into effect yet. It appears to me as if they were anticipating problems with this great new healthcare plan from the beginning, and that does not inspire confidence in me! Many people I have talked with are taking a "wait and see" attitude at the moment, and are doing exactly nothing. I can't even imagine what it's going to be like when they do get involved. :eek:

That has been pretty much my thinking on whether the ACA is good or bad. Sit and wait and see. The truth won't be known until the whole law is implemented and has had 3 or 4 years to function. you know the republicans did the democrats and the aca a huge favor with the shutdown, now that its over the web site problem has replace the shutdown in the minds of most people, the shutdown basically forgotten. Americans are notorious for having very short memories.
 
That has been pretty much my thinking on whether the ACA is good or bad. Sit and wait and see. The truth won't be known until the whole law is implemented and has had 3 or 4 years to function. you know the republicans did the democrats and the aca a huge favor with the shutdown, now that its over the web site problem has replace the shutdown in the minds of most people, the shutdown basically forgotten. Americans are notorious for having very short memories.

My concern remains is what if it is a failure, where is the out? ACA is destroying private insurance and that will lead to what the left and this President really wants a single payer system thus more slush funds for D.C. in the unified budget. Once fully implemented and the private sector destroyed we will indeed have that European socialist model economy.
 
I wanted to let you know that earlier today I received my "Obamacare enrollment packet” from the White House.

It contained:

• An aspirin and a band-aid.
• An 'Obama Hope & Change' bumper sticker
• A 'Bush's Fault' yard sign
• A 'Blame Republicans first, then anybody and everybody' poster
• A 'Tax the Rich' banner
• An application for unemployment and a free cellphone
• An application for food stamps
• A prayer rug
• A letter assigning my debt to my grandchildren
• And lastly, a coupon for a machine that blows smoke up my ass.

Everything was made in "China" and all directions were in Spanish.


Good luck, yours is on the way
 
My concern remains is what if it is a failure, where is the out? ACA is destroying private insurance and that will lead to what the left and this President really wants a single payer system thus more slush funds for D.C. in the unified budget. Once fully implemented and the private sector destroyed we will indeed have that European socialist model economy.

I wouldn't go that far.
 
Where is the incentive for private industry to keep private insurance for their employees?

For employer base insurance coverage, not much outside of respect they have for their employees. If it becomes cheaper to just pay the fine, businesses who are in the profit business will do so. What the people in Washington D.C. do not see or know is that when a law is passed with as much changes to a life style as the ACA, the people will adjust and change also, they will change their habits and the way they do business. Washington automatically assumes that lifestyle, habits etc will not change and they are wrong every time. If no one adjusted to the law and kept doing things exactly as before, then the ACA may have been a rip roaring success. But that is not what people, business, etc do. They adjust to the changing circumstances and they are doing so as I type this.
 
For employer base insurance coverage, not much outside of respect they have for their employees. If it becomes cheaper to just pay the fine, businesses who are in the profit business will do so. What the people in Washington D.C. do not see or know is that when a law is passed with as much changes to a life style as the ACA, the people will adjust and change also, they will change their habits and the way they do business. Washington automatically assumes that lifestyle, habits etc will not change and they are wrong every time. If no one adjusted to the law and kept doing things exactly as before, then the ACA may have been a rip roaring success. But that is not what people, business, etc do. They adjust to the changing circumstances and they are doing so as I type this.

People in D.C. never see beyond the moment or beyond anything that doesn't create votes for their next campaign or job. That is why we are in such a mess today, the live for today mentality
 
The part in bold, especially the italic part will never happen. That would mean that Obama would have to say that Cruz was right....He won't do that.

I agree. Odds of that outcome have been greatly reduced. That's one of opportunity costs associated with the linkage of the ACA to the continuing resolution and debt ceiling issues.
 
Not true. But don't take my word for it. Here is an article from Forbes Magazine. Romney's plan WAS the Heritage Foundation plan.

The Heritage Foundations plan didn't have an individual mandate. It offered a tax credit if you purchased at least catastrophic insurance.

There was no requirement to purchase anything, but they did offer a carrot if you did.
 
I wouldn't go that far.

Pero, Conservative used "what if?", and I think he has a logical question, because few things about the ACA makes sense so far. What we were told about it doesn't match up with the reality many people are facing. It may have been some people's perception...there's that word again...based on what they heard, but many thought it would be free. They're learning differently. How are the people, who are going to be subsidiized, expected to meet the co-pays and out of pocket expense, as an example? :wow: It doesn't affect me, but I am curious. What plans, other than wellness, or preventive medicine, is going to be the norm?
 
People in D.C. never see beyond the moment or beyond anything that doesn't create votes for their next campaign or job. That is why we are in such a mess today, the live for today mentality

I couldn't agree more
 
Pero, Conservative used "what if?", and I think he has a logical question, because few things about the ACA makes sense so far. What we were told about it doesn't match up with the reality many people are facing. It may have been some people's perception...there's that word again...based on what they heard, but many thought it would be free. They're learning differently. How are the people, who are going to be subsidiized, expected to meet the co-pays and out of pocket expense, as an example? :wow: It doesn't affect me, but I am curious. What plans, other than wellness, or preventive medicine, is going to be the norm?

To be honest, I don't know. But with every new mandate added, the cost has to be picked up by someone. Sure keeping kids on a parents policy until 26 is very popular, but somewhere, someplace there is someone paying for it. It is not free as most think. Keep hearing reports that a male under 30 can for the most part expect his health insurance to double. Perhaps it is those in that range that is picking up quite a bit of the tab.

Nothing is free, someone is paying for it or if not, we are borrowing money to pay for it, even so, someone in the future will be paying for it. Subsidies, taxpayers are paying for that or the added taxes on things like home sales with will be charged a 3% fee I hear tell going to help pay for Obamacare. The Medical device tax, what else who knows.

Now you throw in, what? 20 million more patients in an already overburdened health system where doctors are now retiring or leaving the country to practice elsewhere. Got the Flu, wait 3 days to see you doctor or go to the emergency room. The wife's and me family practice use to be McIntosh Trails, but they stopped accepting walk ins and you now must have an appointment to be seen. We switched doctors because we don't know the day before whether one of us will be sick or not in order to make a timely appointment. Doctors are telling me they don't as of yet know the rate of reimbursement for see a patient either.

I don't know, perhaps all of this is hick-ups, but I doubt it.
 
To be honest, I don't know. But with every new mandate added, the cost has to be picked up by someone. Sure keeping kids on a parents policy until 26 is very popular, but somewhere, someplace there is someone paying for it. It is not free as most think. Keep hearing reports that a male under 30 can for the most part expect his health insurance to double. Perhaps it is those in that range that is picking up quite a bit of the tab.

Nothing is free, someone is paying for it or if not, we are borrowing money to pay for it, even so, someone in the future will be paying for it. Subsidies, taxpayers are paying for that or the added taxes on things like home sales with will be charged a 3% fee I hear tell going to help pay for Obamacare. The Medical device tax, what else who knows.

Now you throw in, what? 20 million more patients in an already overburdened health system where doctors are now retiring or leaving the country to practice elsewhere. Got the Flu, wait 3 days to see you doctor or go to the emergency room. The wife's and me family practice use to be McIntosh Trails, but they stopped accepting walk ins and you now must have an appointment to be seen. We switched doctors because we don't know the day before whether one of us will be sick or not in order to make a timely appointment. Doctors are telling me they don't as of yet know the rate of reimbursement for see a patient either.

I don't know, perhaps all of this is hick-ups, but I doubt it.

Are we going to go back to the good-old-days of Gunsmoke where crusty old Doc Adams tells the family, "either he is going to get better, or he's going to die, because I've done all I can... it's out of my hands." This is America, not some third world country! If doctors are expected to see X number of patients per hour in order to meet their office payroll, how much time does anyone expect to receive from him? Craziness!

In this area, and many others I have read about, hospitals are merging in order to stay afloat, and they are laying off staff. When you are sick or injured, the last thing you need is to be seen by tired, overworked, and upset, doctors and nurses. Time will tell, but I hope it turns out okay for those affected, both hospital staff and patients. Stay healthy! :wow:
 
Are we going to go back to the good-old-days of Gunsmoke where crusty old Doc Adams tells the family, "either he is going to get better, or he's going to die, because I've done all I can... it's out of my hands." This is America, not some third world country! If doctors are expected to see X number of patients per hour in order to meet their office payroll, how much time does anyone expect to receive from him? Craziness!

In this area, and many others I have read about, hospitals are merging in order to stay afloat, and they are laying off staff. When you are sick or injured, the last thing you need is to be seen by tired, overworked, and upset, doctors and nurses. Time will tell, but I hope it turns out okay for those affected, both hospital staff and patients. Stay healthy! :wow:

Yes, the hospital in Henry county where I live has been sold to Piedmont and is no long a county hospital. My old family practice office now has been sold and belongs to Emory. Northside Hospital instead of cutting back has moved into my county and has taken over several doctors offices. It is sort of like the banking system. I remember when every small town in America had their own privately own bank by a local resident, now what do you have, 5 or 6 huge banks blanketing the country and the town bank is now long gone. A memory along with Root Beer Stands and Drive in Movie Theaters.
 
Interesting, questions:
Did you 'flock to' PPACA prior to its passage?...considering the oft repeated proclamation 'we have to pass it to know what's in it'
Why would Bush fight for legislation when Congress clearly stated 'dead on arrival'?...especially considering his weakened position after the '06 election.
Off-the-cuff? It seems pretty well delineated:

Reforming Health Care for the 21st Century
Note these specific points:

The bolded ones are quite similar to some currently in PPACA...what is there to NOT get behind?

1. It was wrong of the Democrats to not work with Bush on negotiating such a proposal and move it forward. Without studying the details further they appear, at least on the surface of it, to have rejected it to deny Bush political points. Result: we all lost.
2. Bush did not fight for it. The result is it never became a fraction of the all-out national debate it is now. We all lost because of this.
3. This is dated on February 2006, before the democrats took back control of both houses. Why didn't Bush make this a greater priority?
4. More telling is that there is a giant debate on health care reform going on right now and you're reaching back six years. That should tell you something.
 
I pointed to a real problem for entrepreneurs. Most of them fail, don't forget. And before Obamacare, many of them didn't even try. You bet I complained about the price of it. How much money would YOU have to make before you could afford $15,400 a year for health insurance? Just for you? Most people would simply have to take their chances. You don't think that's worth complaining about? I do.

What I make now is more than enough to pay $15,400 for health insurance if that was a big priority for me. But I decided to go the other route and don't have to worry about paying the $15,400. That doesn't mean it came without cost to me though, I made less than I could have because I never worked for my self (full time anyway).

But with Obamadon'tcare, productive peoples costs are going to go up for many if not most that already had/have health insurance. It's certainly going to be more expensive for employers which means people will be paid less or have to go without or less of a pay raise or lose their health insurance. But that's what happens any time the government gets involved, which is one of the reasons why your price was so high to begin with. Government mandates on what has to be covered will not lower the cost. And if it ever gets to a single payer system that the liars wanted all along that passed Obamadon'tcare, people will receive rationed health care. It's the only way the government can control costs. Health insurance in no way means heath care as many are finding out now that are on Medicare.
 
What I make now is more than enough to pay $15,400 for health insurance if that was a big priority for me. But I decided to go the other route and don't have to worry about paying the $15,400. That doesn't mean it came without cost to me though, I made less than I could have because I never worked for my self (full time anyway).

But with Obamadon'tcare, productive peoples costs are going to go up for many if not most that already had/have health insurance. It's certainly going to be more expensive for employers which means people will be paid less or have to go without or less of a pay raise or lose their health insurance. But that's what happens any time the government gets involved, which is one of the reasons why your price was so high to begin with. Government mandates on what has to be covered will not lower the cost. And if it ever gets to a single payer system that the liars wanted all along that passed Obamadon'tcare, people will receive rationed health care. It's the only way the government can control costs. Health insurance in no way means heath care as many are finding out now that are on Medicare.

You and I are so far apart, we're never going to get even close. If you don't find $15,400 ludicrous as a yearly healthcare cost for someone self-employed, I don't know what to tell you. As for Medicare? My mom is on Medicare. She is treated by doctors through Loyola University Hospital in Maywood, Illinois. She gets the finest care anyone would ever expect from doctors. She has Medicare and a standard Blue Cross Blue Shield supplement.

As for what health insurance is going to cost pre-post-Obamacare? The verdict isn't in. And as for rationing care? That's up to you as a patient to see that your care isn't rationed. Malpractice lawsuits are pretty effective deterrents against improper medical care.
 
Isn't typical of liberal arrogance that now is calling for the best and brightest minds of America coming in to fix a program whose implementation has been a disaster.

John mcafee got a call to be amongst those best and brightest, he called the coding amateur, and said the entire thing should be scrapped and then to have a whole new team start from scratch, that's how bad the code was.

To paraphrase, what was said was that it was like a high school kid just filling in pages and hoping that the teacher wouldn't really read the homework...

That's what 600 million bought.

Shouldn't have been done prior to attempting the role out and creation of the website?

Well, the way it usually works is that you write the code, then you have "alpha" testing where you simulate a user using the code, then move to beta testing where you simulate actual usage, and even then there are bound to be some glitches that get corrected... But it's a complete myth that the site fails from massive interest, it fails from bad programming... The development adds a few possibilities:
A) the team hired was incompetent and screwed up the coding not worried since it was tax payers expense
B) Obama knowingly hired an incompetent group knowing that the results would mostly fail
C) the coders were competent but told to fail

I suppose it's also possible that the coders were competent, but just could not handle the task.

Here we are hundreds of millions of dollars spent, a website that is a disaster, and supporters still giving Obama credibility?

It's worse, this is the Nigerian scam; Obama is prince offering his golden ideal, but it's going to have a cost "upfront" in order to get the prize... Now that the first investment is put in, the people refuse to accept when inevitably the prize fails to appear, and Obama asks for more he can even tug
On the previous investment to pull a larger sun to get the promise....

Look at the people who do fall for these scams.... They will fight you if you talk bad about the scam artists... Even though they lost their homes in the process.

Rather frustrating for thinking people to see the failures of Obama being ignored all because of the rhetoric he speaks.

Ya... That's what makes him so dangerous...
 
John mcafee got a call to be amongst those best and brightest, he called the coding amateur, and said the entire thing should be scrapped and then to have a whole new team start from scratch, that's how bad the code was.

To paraphrase, what was said was that it was like a high school kid just filling in pages and hoping that the teacher wouldn't really read the homework...

That's what 600 million bought.



Well, the way it usually works is that you write the code, then you have "alpha" testing where you simulate a user using the code, then move to beta testing where you simulate actual usage, and even then there are bound to be some glitches that get corrected... But it's a complete myth that the site fails from massive interest, it fails from bad programming... The development adds a few possibilities:
A) the team hired was incompetent and screwed up the coding not worried since it was tax payers expense
B) Obama knowingly hired an incompetent group knowing that the results would mostly fail
C) the coders were competent but told to fail

I suppose it's also possible that the coders were competent, but just could not handle the task.



It's worse, this is the Nigerian scam; Obama is prince offering his golden ideal, but it's going to have a cost "upfront" in order to get the prize... Now that the first investment is put in, the people refuse to accept when inevitably the prize fails to appear, and Obama asks for more he can even tug
On the previous investment to pull a larger sun to get the promise....

Look at the people who do fall for these scams.... They will fight you if you talk bad about the scam artists... Even though they lost their homes in the process.



Ya... That's what makes him so dangerous...

Macfee, was he the guy who became a fugitve after supposedly killing his neighbor in south america?

GOP asked tech founder, ex-fugitive McAfee to diagnose Obamacare - NBC News.com
 
Please tell me what that has to do with the debacle known as the ACA website and fixing it? I am sure that in the private sector you could get away with what Obama is doing and wouldn't be fired but I expect more out of my tax dollars, LOL, 500 million and counting.

if the gop were serious about fixing the healthcare website, they should probably go after the corrupt contractor who fleeced the federal government, and maybe it would help their credibility when their supposed tech expert is not also a ex-fugitive.
 
You and I are so far apart, we're never going to get even close. If you don't find $15,400 ludicrous as a yearly healthcare cost for someone self-employed, I don't know what to tell you. As for Medicare? My mom is on Medicare. She is treated by doctors through Loyola University Hospital in Maywood, Illinois. She gets the finest care anyone would ever expect from doctors. She has Medicare and a standard Blue Cross Blue Shield supplement.

As for what health insurance is going to cost pre-post-Obamacare? The verdict isn't in. And as for rationing care? That's up to you as a patient to see that your care isn't rationed. Malpractice lawsuits are pretty effective deterrents against improper medical care.

I don't necessarily see us as being that far apart. Some/a lot of that $15400 price tag came because of mandated care by the government. It is ludicrous that they tell anybody what product they are allowed/required to purchase in relation to their health care. I think you and I know better than they do.

The verdict is in on Obamadon'tcare costs. For just about everybody, minus the Medicaid crowd, costs are going to be higher. And that's pretending there's no cost to the taxpayers for Medicaid or costs to the policy holder indirectly.

I see four different doctors myself. To sum up what they think of Obamadon'tcare is simple. They think it sucks for them and sucks for their patients. One of the four is thinking about quitting the business because many of his patients are on Medicare. Another one of them now has to limit the days he can operate because if the patient is discharged on the weekend and he is not working so he can sign the papers, the hospital doesn't get paid for his Medicare patients. Pretty stupid uh? He said he is going to go ahead and retire soon because it won't be worth it with all the rules. The other two said they are going to try to find a way to stay in business, for now. Malpractice lawsuits are completely ineffective if a patient can't find a doctor to sue.
 
if the gop were serious about fixing the healthcare website, they should probably go after the corrupt contractor who fleeced the federal government, and maybe it would help their credibility when their supposed tech expert is not also a ex-fugitive.

You mean the contractor that this Administration hired and the administration that had 3 years to get it right? Is there anything this Administration can do to lose your support? this is a joke and an example of incompetence and what the govt. does best, fail at implementation of social programs.
 
if the gop were serious about fixing the healthcare website, they should probably go after the corrupt contractor who fleeced the federal government, and maybe it would help their credibility when their supposed tech expert is not also a ex-fugitive.

LOL. Grasp at any straw to support those clowns in the Obama administration, uh? That guy hasn't be convicted of squat and the GOP congressmen had nothing to do with developing that failed website. Try a different type of spin.
 
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