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'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

It's not when you agree with them more, it's when you cheerlead for them as you did here.

Well, sorry that you don't like it when someone agrees with something you don't....Not my problem.

Benghazi doesn't really bother me and the NSA spying would happen no matter which party controlled what. I think people are waiting for a decent alternative, and when you look at what's unpopular - Obamacare and the NSA - Romney didn't really offer an alternative. Most people could easily see he was full of crap when it came to repeal of Obamacare because everybody knew it was in many ways the same as Romneycare. The only people who really believed that were the diehards on either side.

And that is actually a good point....I think people are realizing, waking up if you will, that "progressivism" exists on BOTH sides of the isle, and it has to go if we are going to survive as a nation that regards individual freedom as sacrosanct.
 
I don't think you realize how much the shut down has hurt the Republican party and their hopes of gaining seats in the senate next year, at least for the time being. Prior to the shut down, it looked like a lock the GOP would pick up Democratic held seats in Montana, West Virginia and South Dakota along with have at least a 50-50 shot or a bit better in Alaska, Louisiana, Arkansas and a slightly less than 50-50 in North Carolina. That was 7 seats, enough for the Republicans to gain control of the senate. Now a few days after the shut down ended, South Dakota still looks like a pickup, Montana and West Virginia not so much, perhaps toss ups, Arkansas, Louisiana and Alaska has moved more into the Democratic hold category and North Carolina like the the Democrat Hagan will win and keep her seat. If this wasn't bad enough, Kentucky and Georgia might actually flip from Republican to Democrat. Could 2014 be a case like 2012 where it looked like the republicans would gain 5 or 6 seats at the beginning of the year only to lose two.

Look at what happened to the ACA you tried to do away with, prior to the shut down there was a 14-19 point gap advantage of against to favor the new law depending on which poll you were looking at. After the shutdown, that gap narrowed, there is is an advantage of against to favor, but now it is down to between 4-10 points. ACA now looks better to quite a lot of more people than it did prior to the shut down. It did the ACA a huge favor.

Then there is party affiliation/identification, prior to the shutdown 30% identified themselves as Republicans, 35% as Democrats, after both numbers dropped, but the Republicans at at 20% of the electorate and the Democrats at 30%.. Even though the Democrats also dropped, the gap between the parties rose from 5 points to 10 points. That is an awful high mountain to climb just to get back to where you were.

Lucky for you, the election is still a year away, time to heal wounds and regain some prestige. The question is, will you?

Well, if you are asking if repubs will allow establishment progressives to take the narrative, led by the nose by the likes of Schumer, and Reid, and allow the MSM to control the message like they obviously have with your summary here, no offense. Then I sure as hell hope not...Our future depends on it.

We have a long time before Nov. of next year, a lot can, and will happen. Let's talk in summer, is that fair?
 
It's not when you agree with them more, it's when you cheerlead for them as you did here.



Benghazi doesn't really bother me and the NSA spying would happen no matter which party controlled what. I think people are waiting for a decent alternative, and when you look at what's unpopular - Obamacare and the NSA - Romney didn't really offer an alternative. Most people could easily see he was full of crap when it came to repeal of Obamacare because everybody knew it was in many ways the same as Romneycare. The only people who really believed that were the diehards on either side.

Yep, down here in Georgia there was definitely a lack of enthusiasm for Romney among the Georgia republicans. In the end they voted for him only because he wasn't Obama. Any Tom, Dick or Harry would have done. The problem last year for the GOP, is that produced an extremely weak field of candidates to challenge a vulnerable sitting president. Romney was probably the best of that weak field but still the wrong candidate to unseat a sitting president. It was a pipe dream from the beginning and the fact Romney came as close as he did at least in the popular vote, only shows how vulnerable Obama was.
 
I don't think you realize how much the shut down has hurt the Republican party and their hopes of gaining seats in the senate next year, at least for the time being. Prior to the shut down, it looked like a lock the GOP would pick up Democratic held seats in Montana, West Virginia and South Dakota along with have at least a 50-50 shot or a bit better in Alaska, Louisiana, Arkansas and a slightly less than 50-50 in North Carolina. That was 7 seats, enough for the Republicans to gain control of the senate. Now a few days after the shut down ended, South Dakota still looks like a pickup, Montana and West Virginia not so much, perhaps toss ups, Arkansas, Louisiana and Alaska has moved more into the Democratic hold category and North Carolina like the the Democrat Hagan will win and keep her seat. If this wasn't bad enough, Kentucky and Georgia might actually flip from Republican to Democrat. Could 2014 be a case like 2012 where it looked like the republicans would gain 5 or 6 seats at the beginning of the year only to lose two.

Look at what happened to the ACA you tried to do away with, prior to the shut down there was a 14-19 point gap advantage of against to favor the new law depending on which poll you were looking at. After the shutdown, that gap narrowed, there is is an advantage of against to favor, but now it is down to between 4-10 points. ACA now looks better to quite a lot of more people than it did prior to the shut down. It did the ACA a huge favor.

Then there is party affiliation/identification, prior to the shutdown 30% identified themselves as Republicans, 35% as Democrats, after both numbers dropped, but the Republicans at at 20% of the electorate and the Democrats at 30%.. Even though the Democrats also dropped, the gap between the parties rose from 5 points to 10 points. That is an awful high mountain to climb just to get back to where you were.

Lucky for you, the election is still a year away, time to heal wounds and regain some prestige. The question is, will you?

And that's why the best thing that could happen for Obama and the Dems is that Cruz tries his lame stunt again. There's little doubt which way it will go and who will be blamed the next time. Not to mention that Obamacare becomes more popular as time goes on and more people are benefitting.

Ignorant stupid bagger racists such as Cruz know no bounds of sanity.
 
Well, if you are asking if repubs will allow establishment progressives to take the narrative, led by the nose by the likes of Schumer, and Reid, and allow the MSM to control the message like they obviously have with your summary here, no offense. Then I sure as hell hope not...Our future depends on it.

We have a long time before Nov. of next year, a lot can, and will happen. Let's talk in summer, is that fair?

Absolutely it is fair. I am one who believes the shut down come next year will be ancient history and have said so in numerous posts. what I described was for today as none of us know what tomorrow will bring. I don't listen to MSM, I go and get my information off the internet delving into polls for the fine print. Yes, absolutely fair.
 
And that's why the best thing that could happen for Obama and the Dems is that Cruz tries his lame stunt again. There's little doubt which way it will go and who will be blamed the next time. Not to mention that Obamacare becomes more popular as time goes on and more people are benefitting.

Ignorant stupid bagger racists such as Cruz know no bounds of sanity.

Personally, I think next year, more than a year away will be decided by events and issues that are to come and unforeseeable at the moment. The Republicans did do the ACA a great favor, if they kept quiet about it and made it an election issue next year, who knows? But their chances would be a whole lot better. Time will tell.
 
\Why would that be the case? I mean, they already have been able to reap the benefits of a premium boom due to the mandates on this turd of a law, and as we know well, in that industry, what goes up, stays up....So, I actually think that pulling the plug on this and starting over would actually settle them down a bit.

When actuaries determine policy rates, a good portion of the data they use is "how many healthy people do we expect to enroll?" In fact, I'd say that's the #1 most important consideration in determining premiums. If the mandate is delayed, the healthy won't enroll anywhere close to expected numbers. THAT destroys their actuarial model.
 
Yep, and as folks have been 'conditioned' since PPACA passage to expect something this merely eases the paving of the single payer pathway...going back to pre-PPACA will be unacceptable to these folks...WTF was the GOP thinking?

Single payer modeled after Medicare is exactly what should have happened.
 
Single payer modeled after Medicare is exactly what should have happened.

Yep, but that was bargained away to get Obamacare in the very beginning. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
 
Personally, I think next year, more than a year away will be decided by events and issues that are to come and unforeseeable at the moment. The Republicans did do the ACA a great favor, if they kept quiet about it and made it an election issue next year, who knows? But their chances would be a whole lot better. Time will tell.

Yes, you're right but still there has been damage done to the bagger brand. I would suggest that the worst of it is among their benefactors who would be completely opposed to a gov shutdown or a debt ceiling debate that is completely meaningless. The fact that the latter is meaningless is a clear indication of their destructive mindset for no good purpose.

But as I said, Cruz's future actions will be closer to the date of elections and every indication from the last one is that it will be just as destructive for his cause. For that reason it should be covertly encouraged by the Dem powers that be. But only covertly.

Cruz and his bagger cohorts will very likely carefully weigh the political climate before embarking on the same stupid task again. That makes it pretty unlikely even though they need to keep up appearances now to make it out as a success. They're in a difficult position, firstly because the mainstream GOP has turned against them even though it's not made public for obvious reasons. And secondly, because there is no indication that it will be more successful the next time than it was this time.

Another issue to note is the forced reception Cruz received from his supporters in Texas. A standing ovation that lasted for 6 or 7 minutes went overboard for the credibility factor. Had it been limited to a minute it would have been more convincing for the audience that it was intended for. In essence, they knew it was all a lost cause for Cruz and they wanted to have it displayed as something different for them at least. It failed because of the absurdity of 7 minutes standing and clapping.

I'm anxious to see how Cruz will play it out the next time. I know it won't be in the same manner but I can't imagine how he will modify it to make it less damaging to the country in the eyes of the people. His big problem now is, if he doesn't try it again then he will be condemned by the feeble minds that think it was a positive move for him. He'll obviously have to resort to something less effective that doesn't have teeth.

Or how about having somebody else carry the ball for him and then he takes to opposing in some way? Could he pull that off to make him look like the responsible 'good guy' politician? He obviously has to come up with some kind of ingenious plan because right now he's dead meat as a presidential candidate. Bagger support won't do it within the Repub party.
 
Thats why that whole shut down was so retarded and why Obama shares at least a significant portion of the blame. He already insists that the business mandate was screwed up and must be delayed. Rather than have a logical discussion about delaying the private mandate, he acted like a little spoiled child. Now...he looks not only like a little child but incompetent to boot.

Oh..and heres the REALLY fun part...watching all the 'supporters' of the ACA jumping ship like rats. Gosh...they never knew they were supporting such bad legislation!
 
The part in bold, especially the italic part will never happen. That would mean that Obama would have to say that Cruz was right....He won't do that.



Why would that be the case? I mean, they already have been able to reap the benefits of a premium boom due to the mandates on this turd of a law, and as we know well, in that industry, what goes up, stays up....So, I actually think that pulling the plug on this and starting over would actually settle them down a bit.

Actually, I think this would let him say "See? Like I've been saying all along, we're willing to talk about this, just not under threat of government shutdown."

Plus, the GOP isn't trying to derail Obamacare over any sense of duty to the American people. They literally want the law to make things worse, because that helps them politically.
 
Single payer modeled after Medicare is exactly what should have happened.
Nothing says freedom, liberty, personal responsibility or fiscal responsibility like "Single Payer" forced socialized medicine. You think the economy is paltry now, try that stunt.
 
Thats why that whole shut down was so retarded and why Obama shares at least a significant portion of the blame. He already insists that the business mandate was screwed up and must be delayed. Rather than have a logical discussion about delaying the private mandate, he acted like a little spoiled child. Now...he looks not only like a little child but incompetent to boot.

Oh..and heres the REALLY fun part...watching all the 'supporters' of the ACA jumping ship like rats. Gosh...they never knew they were supporting such bad legislation!

Your ignorant charge of Obama acting like a spoiled child is irrelevant. It's no more than political rhetoric. What is relevant is that the blame for the shutdown has been firmly placed where it belongs in the minds of the majority of the electorate. I need not remind you of the facts.
 
Nothing says freedom, liberty, personal responsibility or fiscal responsibility like "Single Payer" forced socialized medicine. You think the economy is paltry now, try that stunt.

Medicare is the single best thing that happened for seniors in the United States of America since its founding. Extending Medicare-type coverage to every American would not be a stunt.
 
Nothing says freedom, liberty, personal responsibility or fiscal responsibility like "Single Payer" forced socialized medicine. You think the economy is paltry now, try that stunt.

In actual fact, you could take away the sarcasm and you would be dead right for all of the world's wealthy first world countries. In regards to health care, the US doesn't fit anymore. Even Switzerland, one of the most firmly established capitalist systems in the world say the light and joined the rest of the world.

The fact is, Americans know they need to do the same. Some of them just can't stomach having it done for them by a black president. That's a poor reason to object and for that reason alone it will happen eventually. Perhaps some satisfaction could come out of it happening later under some other president's watch. Who the **** cares other than those who are being bankrupted by the lousy system in place now.
 
Yet we know the GOP House members like Ryan on the Conference committee want "reform" here..
I don't have a problem with that word, but how we will do it is just one more problem on the plate..
Medicare is the single best thing that happened for seniors in the United States of America since its founding.
Extending Medicare-type coverage to every American would not be a stunt.
Social Security will also be on the GOP plate..
Meanwhile, GOP govs in purple states up for reelection are taking the Medicaid .
 
Actually, I think this would let him say "See? Like I've been saying all along, we're willing to talk about this, just not under threat of government shutdown."

Plus, the GOP isn't trying to derail Obamacare over any sense of duty to the American people. They literally want the law to make things worse, because that helps them politically.


Well, that would be his attempted spin I guess. But things called ads, and facts may get in his way of trying to alter the universe.

MaggieD said:
Medicare is the single best thing that happened for seniors in the United States of America since its founding. Extending Medicare-type coverage to every American would not be a stunt.

It is also BROKE! trillions in unfunded liabilities. Single payer would look less like Medicare, except for the cute little card one carries in their wallet, and more like VA health care. Plus I am NOT look for my paycheck take home drop any more! I have bills to pay too.
 
Great spin. LOL. But people having problems with Obamadon'tcare know who is responsible for the disaster. It ain't the GOP.
How is that spin? Obama and the Democrats believe in the ACA. Their refusal to delay when Republicans demanded it was because they believed in the legislation. The reason they may be willing to delay now, however, would not be based upon the quality of the legislation, but rather in fairness to those who have been unable to comply with the law for reasons outside the citizen's control.

It's not spin to tell the truth. It's quite telling of team politics when you think it is.
 
Yes, you're right but still there has been damage done to the bagger brand. I would suggest that the worst of it is among their benefactors who would be completely opposed to a gov shutdown or a debt ceiling debate that is completely meaningless. The fact that the latter is meaningless is a clear indication of their destructive mindset for no good purpose.

But as I said, Cruz's future actions will be closer to the date of elections and every indication from the last one is that it will be just as destructive for his cause. For that reason it should be covertly encouraged by the Dem powers that be. But only covertly.

Cruz and his bagger cohorts will very likely carefully weigh the political climate before embarking on the same stupid task again. That makes it pretty unlikely even though they need to keep up appearances now to make it out as a success. They're in a difficult position, firstly because the mainstream GOP has turned against them even though it's not made public for obvious reasons. And secondly, because there is no indication that it will be more successful the next time than it was this time.

Another issue to note is the forced reception Cruz received from his supporters in Texas. A standing ovation that lasted for 6 or 7 minutes went overboard for the credibility factor. Had it been limited to a minute it would have been more convincing for the audience that it was intended for. In essence, they knew it was all a lost cause for Cruz and they wanted to have it displayed as something different for them at least. It failed because of the absurdity of 7 minutes standing and clapping.

I'm anxious to see how Cruz will play it out the next time. I know it won't be in the same manner but I can't imagine how he will modify it to make it less damaging to the country in the eyes of the people. His big problem now is, if he doesn't try it again then he will be condemned by the feeble minds that think it was a positive move for him. He'll obviously have to resort to something less effective that doesn't have teeth.

Or how about having somebody else carry the ball for him and then he takes to opposing in some way? Could he pull that off to make him look like the responsible 'good guy' politician? He obviously has to come up with some kind of ingenious plan because right now he's dead meat as a presidential candidate. Bagger support won't do it within the Repub party.

I don't know what the future holds for Cruz, but he is definitely out of the mainstream for sure. I do think the tea party will be a power sourse within the GOP for a few more years to come. But 2012 may have given us an indication where tea party member shrank from 60 to 47 and in the senate from 8 to 6. At least those numbers are the self identified tea party members.

I think the tea party may actually be hurting the Republicans, how many more Aiken's, Mourdock's appearing and knocking of GOP candidates that looked like sure winners in the primaries only to have those tea party candidate lose. They have challenged McConnell in the KY primary with Bevin and Graham of all people in the SC Primary next year.

The house is different as its districts are much smaller than states and very well could have been gerrymandered to retain the tea party members. Yes, the tea party really took a hit, so too did the Republican Party as a whole. Will it stick, now that is the question than none of can answer until sometime next year. Give it six months and we will see.
 
Obama et al, never said they wouldn't consider a delay in anything, or to discuss any other ideas.

What he said was he wouldn't discuss in relation to re-opening the government. He said over and over he was open to hearing all ideas, after and not relating to the government paying bills already incurred, and allowing government to function as it is currently mandated to through all the bills Congress has passed over the centuries.
 
Obama et al, never said they wouldn't consider a delay in anything, or to discuss any other ideas.

What he said was he wouldn't discuss in relation to re-opening the government. He said over and over he was open to hearing all ideas, after and not relating to the government paying bills already incurred, and allowing government to function as it is currently mandated to through all the bills Congress has passed over the centuries.

When the President is ready to take a stand on the current climate of excluding all legislation from the 2010 Paygo Act because everything is "emergency spending"? Or was the 700 billion in annual spending increases since 2008 "passed over the centuries"?
 
When the President is ready to take a stand on the current climate of excluding all legislation from the 2010 Paygo Act because everything is "emergency spending"? Or was the 700 billion in annual spending increases since 2008 "passed over the centuries"?
Bless your little heart.
 
Obama et al, never said they wouldn't consider a delay in anything, or to discuss any other ideas.

What he said was he wouldn't discuss in relation to re-opening the government. He said over and over he was open to hearing all ideas, after and not relating to the government paying bills already incurred, and allowing government to function as it is currently mandated to through all the bills Congress has passed over the centuries.


I bet he's really wishing he had delayed it when the Republicans asked him to back in August.

The funniest thing about this whole ordeal is that the Republicans were asking to delay the roll out at the same time the contractors were telling the administration that the site isn't ready AND the site had just failed a load test of a few hundred applicants.... and he held his ground. Full steam ahead! The iceberg will move!
 
I bet he's really wishing he had delayed it when the Republicans asked him to back in August.

The funniest thing about this whole ordeal is that the Republicans were asking to delay the roll out at the same time the contractors were telling the administration that the site isn't ready AND the site had just failed a load test of a few hundred applicants.... and he held his ground. Full steam ahead! The iceberg will move!
I don't know, but he should've done that. If delaying mandate for one group, do all groups, OR better yet, only delay for the group that is most hurting (if you're a democrat) and that doesn't seem to be these huge corporations, it'd be individuals.

He really, really screwed that up every possible way, and those Repubs couldn't care less about the those little individuals, but he left himself open for this attack. Open 'em, let be voluntary the first year, let kinks get worked out, and then... I could see that for being sensible, given the complications that the Repubs and insurance companies and Obama forced onto what should be uncomplicated and no need for any huge IT programs at all.
 
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