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Thread: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Ok, looked at it all and yes, you are being disingenuous... You are trying to have it both ways, and your question has been answered over a dozen times, Including the why of the answer...
    No, it has not. It's been answered once and I'm not being disingenuous at all. You clearly have not followed the discussion, you didn't even know the question when you quoted it. And your nonsense you and Conservative are pushing that something which is flawed cannot have improvements defies logic.

    The fact is you don't want to answer the question either, for what I assume are the same reasons. What's more, I find it incredibly sad you don't want to answer the question even though it's already been answered by others for you, which I think just goes to show you're not interested in logic or facts, merely team politics.

    Let me know when you're ready to discuss my actual question. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    It's funny how you edit out the part of my post that clearly states exactly what your just said and make it look like you are teaching me something.
    My mistake. I simply quit reading your post when you posted the 2,400 number, which was inaccurate (as you later said).

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Why did the Democrats pass this legislation when they didn't know what was in it?
    Likely because they knew reform was needed and their party leaders told them to.

    Shouldn't something as big as this be investigated thoroughly
    Absolutely. It should also be represented honestly to the American public, which both sides have failed to do.

    with majority bipartisan support
    No. Bipartisan support has nothing to do with our system of government, it is a cog which has been added by big money groups (currently Republicans and Democrats).

    and the majority approval of the American people before something of this scale is passed?
    No, if that is how we wished for our government to work, then we wouldn't need representatives. Instead, the American people elected a majority of one party in all three elective sections of government, putting their trust into those they elected they will serve the interests of Americans.

    Does it suck when the policies you believe in are not supported by the majority party? Absolutely. But our history shows one political party doesn't hold power for a relatively long time.

    It was passed for political reasons, often selfish reasons, and ideological reasons.
    Yes, just like any and all legislation. It was passed to appease people politically and to better a previously flawed system. No one disputes our healthcare industry was in shambles before. Everyone agrees. Obamacare was passed to fix it. Time alone will tell if it improves our situation.

    Now the left wing ideologues want bad legislation to be 'fixed' rather than go through the process in a responsible way that corresponds with financial realities, the will of the legislators, and the people they represent.

    Is this anyway to tun a country?
    It's the only way to run a country. The Republicans do not dispute our system before was not working. But what they seem to want to do is go back to it and then basically keep it that way for another few decades. Oh, I know some posters will present links to a reform Republicans supposedly support, but Republicans did not pass it even when they were the party in power. What Republicans want to do (if I may borrow a phrase from Krauthammer on the Daily Show) is to govern by minority. Unfortunately, and much to the chagrin of whichever party is in power, our government does not work that way.

    So, if the Republicans were truly interested in helping Americans (which everyone knows political parties are only in it to help themselves), they would offer up improvements to Obamacare, which at the very least could make things "better". You work to make the best of a bad situation, until you gain enough power to change the situation.

    But, as I said, Republicans don't want to improve Obamacare, because if they offer improvements which work, the American citizen is not likely to give them credit for the improvement, but rather praise Democrats for the original passage. This works against the Republicans political interest, so they do not want to improve it. And just to be clear, if the situations were reversed, the Democrats would do the same thing.
    Last edited by Slyfox696; 10-30-13 at 04:39 PM.

  2. #422
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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Good point. It's better to take the assured death than waste time on possibly living.

    Sound logic from you, as usual.
    And to think, some of the lifeboats only had a few people in them if used at all.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

  3. #423
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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    No, it has not. It's been answered once and I'm not being disingenuous at all. You clearly have not followed the discussion, you didn't even know the question when you quoted it. And your nonsense you and Conservative are pushing that something which is flawed cannot have improvements defies logic.

    The fact is you don't want to answer the question either, for what I assume are the same reasons. What's more, I find it incredibly sad you don't want to answer the question even though it's already been answered by others for you, which I think just goes to show you're not interested in logic or facts, merely team politics.

    Let me know when you're ready to discuss my actual question. Thanks.

    My mistake. I simply quit reading your post when you posted the 2,400 number, which was inaccurate (as you later said).

    Likely because they knew reform was needed and their party leaders told them to.

    Absolutely. It should also be represented honestly to the American public, which both sides have failed to do.

    No. Bipartisan support has nothing to do with our system of government, it is a cog which has been added by big money groups (currently Republicans and Democrats).

    No, if that is how we wished for our government to work, then we wouldn't need representatives. Instead, the American people elected a majority of one party in all three elective sections of government, putting their trust into those they elected they will serve the interests of Americans.

    Does it suck when the policies you believe in are not supported by the majority party? Absolutely. But our history shows one political party doesn't hold power for a relatively long time.

    Yes, just like any and all legislation. It was passed to appease people politically and to better a previously flawed system. No one disputes our healthcare industry was in shambles before. Everyone agrees. Obamacare was passed to fix it. Time alone will tell if it improves our situation.

    It's the only way to run a country. The Republicans do not dispute our system before was not working. But what they seem to want to do is go back to it and then basically keep it that way for another few decades. Oh, I know some posters will present links to a reform Republicans supposedly support, but Republicans did not pass it even when they were the party in power. What Republicans want to do (if I may borrow a phrase from Krauthammer on the Daily Show) is to govern by minority. Unfortunately, and much to the chagrin of whichever party is in power, our government does not work that way.

    So, if the Republicans were truly interested in helping Americans (which everyone knows political parties are only in it to help themselves), they would offer up improvements to Obamacare, which at the very least could make things "better". You work to make the best of a bad situation, until you gain enough power to change the situation.

    But, as I said, Republicans don't want to improve Obamacare, because if they offer improvements which work, the American citizen is not likely to give them credit for the improvement, but rather praise Democrats for the original passage. This works against the Republicans political interest, so they do not want to improve it. And just to be clear, if the situations were reversed, the Democrats would do the same thing.
    I continue to see far too many continuing to buy the Obama rhetoric and ignoring the problems with the problem. Wonder why that is? The system before wasn't working to the extent that socialists want it to work. What you cannot seem to understand is that healthcare is a personal responsibility not a Federal Responsibility. What is it about Obamacare that creates this kind of loyalty? Was it the fact that if you liked your doctor you could keep him? Or how about if you like your healthcare plan you can keep that too? When will you and others hold Obama accountable for his lies and see Obamacare for exactly what it is, liberal deception?

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I continue to see far too many continuing to buy the Obama rhetoric and ignoring the problems with the problem. Wonder why that is? The system before wasn't working to the extent that socialists want it to work. What you cannot seem to understand is that healthcare is a personal responsibility not a Federal Responsibility. What is it about Obamacare that creates this kind of loyalty? Was it the fact that if you liked your doctor you could keep him? Or how about if you like your healthcare plan you can keep that too? When will you and others hold Obama accountable for his lies and see Obamacare for exactly what it is, liberal deception?
    Hey, look...it's that person too busy to play team politics he cannot answer a simple question.

    Let me know when you're ready to answer my question and I'll be happy to move onto whatever direction you want. Otherwise, your attempt at ignoring the truth remains painfully obvious.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    My mistake. I simply quit reading your post when you posted the 2,400 number, which was inaccurate (as you later said).
    No, it was perfectly. The Congress was asked to vote on 2400 pages of legislation, it just happened that 906 pages of it were healthcare related. You can't then turn and say they were only required to read 906 pages as if they had no responsibility for the other 1500 pages they were being asked to vote on.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Hey, look...it's that person too busy to play team politics he cannot answer a simple question.

    Let me know when you're ready to answer my question and I'll be happy to move onto whatever direction you want. Otherwise, your attempt at ignoring the truth remains painfully obvious.
    Why don't you stop with the partisan BS buying that Obamcare is reparable and tell us exactly what you like about the law? I don' think the bill is reparable therefore not sure what you would have me show. If you want to know what the Republicans have offered, the answer is NOTHING because the law isn't reparable. Now answer the question

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Likely because they knew reform was needed and their party leaders told them to.
    "Likely"? That suggests you don't know why it was passed either and knowing it needed reform suggests further that it never should have been passed at all.
    Absolutely. It should also be represented honestly to the American public, which both sides have failed to do.
    Both sides? The Republicans voted solidly against it. That is certainly to their credit. Passing bills of this magnitude which weren't even read or understood will reside with the Democrats.

    No. Bipartisan support has nothing to do with our system of government, it is a cog which has been added by big money groups (currently Republicans and Democrats).
    Didn't Barrack Obama call for bipartisan support and shouldn't have tried to achieve it? That's what real leaders would have done rather than what's being served up now.
    No, if that is how we wished for our government to work, then we wouldn't need representatives. Instead, the American people elected a majority of one party in all three elective sections of government, putting their trust into those they elected they will serve the interests of Americans.
    That's incorrect.
    Does it suck when the policies you believe in are not supported by the majority party? Absolutely. But our history shows one political party doesn't hold power for a relatively long time.
    Who really cares if it sucks for any political party? Shouldn't the welfare of the country come first? And this mess will live with the American people for a very long while.

    Yes, just like any and all legislation. It was passed to appease people politically and to better a previously flawed system. No one disputes our healthcare industry was in shambles before. Everyone agrees. Obamacare was passed to fix it. Time alone will tell if it improves our situation.
    yes, it was passed for political and ideological reasons but this "shambles" you speak of was the best in the world. Not perfect, but this was not 'reform' as was being sold. This is destruction.

    It's the only way to run a country. The Republicans do not dispute our system before was not working. But what they seem to want to do is go back to it and then basically keep it that way for another few decades. Oh, I know some posters will present links to a reform Republicans supposedly support, but Republicans did not pass it even when they were the party in power. What Republicans want to do (if I may borrow a phrase from Krauthammer on the Daily Show) is to govern by minority. Unfortunately, and much to the chagrin of whichever party is in power, our government does not work that way.

    So, if the Republicans were truly interested in helping Americans (which everyone knows political parties are only in it to help themselves), they would offer up improvements to Obamacare, which at the very least could make things "better". You work to make the best of a bad situation, until you gain enough power to change the situation.

    But, as I said, Republicans don't want to improve Obamacare, because if they offer improvements which work, the American citizen is not likely to give them credit for the improvement, but rather praise Democrats for the original passage. This works against the Republicans political interest, so they do not want to improve it. And just to be clear, if the situations were reversed, the Democrats would do the same thing.
    So in your mind it's all about either Democrats or Republicans getting their way and the economy and the long term interests of the people and the country doesn't appear to be much of a factor. That is not uncommon these days.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    In retrospect the WH girls and guys must be crazy or insanely ignorant of things developing right under their noses. How could they whip up emotions about delaying ACA at a time, when it must have been blattently clear to anyone near the program that it was in for severe stress and backfire? Why did they not blame the Republicans for taking away medicine for the poor? They would have made monsters of the Conservative.

    But no! They pressure the thing through, close government and upset the world in order to show of their viral incompetence. This is staggering. What happened?
    Oh, they''ll do that anyway. The thing you have to understand about this bunch, is the old mantra, "by any means necessary." When this fails, and it will, as designed, they will move to single payer by force, as a crisis mitigation. Obama alrady projected that in 2008, at least 7 times.
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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Why don't you stop with the partisan BS buying that Obamcare is reparable and tell us exactly what you like about the law? I don' think the bill is reparable therefore not sure what you would have me show. If you want to know what the Republicans have offered, the answer is NOTHING because the law isn't reparable. Now answer the question
    But, that is exactly what repubs will do though isn't it? Look, I think you know that I don't like what is going on here, but the likely push by repubs by 2016 will be, "elect us, because we can manage it better.." We have no real voice today.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    No, it has not. It's been answered once and I'm not being disingenuous at all.
    Ya, one time where you got the wrong answer you were hoping for, and a few times where you were told the actual answer that you rejected because it wouldn't allow you to make the point you are trying to make, so then you clarified making sure that proposals made were excluded (a disingenuous question) baiting for the answer that allows you to make that point.

    Then over a dozen times you were told the ideal answer, knowing that this is not going to happen...

    But just stop with the broken record routine.

    You clearly have not followed the discussion, you didn't even know the question when you quoted it. And your nonsense you and Conservative are pushing that something which is flawed cannot have improvements defies logic.
    Next time write what you mean and you'll get a response along your expectations...

    The fact is you don't want to answer the question either, for what I assume are the same reasons. What's more, I find it incredibly sad you don't want to answer the question even though it's already been answered by others for you, which I think just goes to show you're not interested in logic or facts, merely team politics.
    I have no "team"... Look, I'm not even against socialized healthcare per se, which, Obama could have done by simply nationalizing the insurance industry, if the system is that much in disrepair, just nationalize it and allocate an appropriate budget worth of taxes and have "federal insurance" that you would get by default... If you are going to have socialized healthcare, there are at least 5-10 other countries that have a reasonably good model. (not without their own problems mind you, but still).

    I'm not republican, but whenever a democrat is in power I'm a republican, when bush was in I was a democrat.

    If I have a team; it's team constitution or team republic.

    Let me know when you're ready to discuss my actual question. Thanks.
    You'll have to put down your copy of rules for radicals for a few minutes before we can get to an honest discussion.

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