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Thread: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael66 View Post
    In my honest opinion I think the WHO also surveys the health care of eskimos, including those in Alaska. Why wouldn't they when looking at a whole country?

    I don't see how admitting that Americans have poor eating habits and are not to be considered equal to Canadians in the ways you stated, has anything to do with quality of health care. Are you really suggesting that Americans aren't equal to Canadians in all those ways?

    So where do you think I'm not being honest?

    I think you are actually trying to say that the WHO isn't being honest but I think that's nothing more than sour grapes.
    Didn't read the article, did you? The WSJ lays it out quite well yet you want to buy the rankings. I guess the question is why? healthcare is a personal responsibility and if people are happy with their healthcare where is that reflected in the WHO rankings? You think mortality rates should be part of any comparison of healthcare by country? How do personal habits affect mortality rates? You think all that vast area in Canada is the same as in this country when it comes to personal choices that people have and how those personal choices affect health care?

    I didn't say WHO wasn't being honest only that they aren't telling the rest of the story. The WSJ does

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I could but it is a waste of time dealing with some of these people here who ignore the data and still promote an ideology. What those numbers show is that the cost of living in Canada is 20 points higher than the United States which supports the previous posts that Canada has hidden taxes that drive up housing, food, and other required living expenses. Published tax rates don't tell the whole story, cost of living indexes do.
    In all honesty, tax rates do mean something when the question is on, on, on, wait for it, tax rates?

    I would suggest that the cost of living is much lower in Mexico and Bangladesh than it is in either Canada or the US. It's something we should talk about but maybe not on in comparison to tax rates. Keeping in mind that income inequality is more like the US in Mexico than in any other country. But that's a different subject entirely isn't it.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael66 View Post
    In all honesty, tax rates do mean something when the question is on, on, on, wait for it, tax rates?

    I would suggest that the cost of living is much lower in Mexico and Bangladesh than it is in either Canada or the US. It's something we should talk about but maybe not on in comparison to tax rates. Keeping in mind that income inequality is more like the US in Mexico than in any other country. But that's a different subject entirely isn't it.
    I think it is great that you love your country and in fact I love mine and wouldn't move to Canada for any amount of money. That love of your country is skewing reality and the cost of living is reality. I know you love the WHO study because it tells you what you want to believe but ignores some major factors such as mortality rates are a poor judge of healthcare quality as many factors go into mortality rates. In addition. citizen satisfaction is ignored in the study or given very poor weight so explain to me how a country can rank low and have high favorability ratings by the citizens? You put way too much faith in an outdated survey that doesn't even have the ability to verify the data or compile the data accurately between countries.

    http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/20/3/10.long

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The Democrats understand that perfectly, which is why they don 't listen to what the Republicans have to say.
    Most everyone agrees its a bad situation, and was created 100% y the Democrats, and against the will of the people. How can the Republicans now be blamed for not fixing it?
    A) I don't think it's a bad situation and I think as time goes on, the truth of Obamacare will win out over the political spin.
    B) It's hard to take Republicans seriously, if they're not offering any ways to improve it besides "get rid of it". That'd be akin to me saying we could improve the Congress if we'd just get rid of the Republican Party. Not very helpful or practical.

    And cancelling Obamacare is best for the people in America
    Not really. What we have now (before Obamacare) was dreadful. Everyone knows and agrees.

    Barrack Obama, as usual, is saying he had no idea what's going on, and I'm beginning to believe him. Obama, the architect behind Obamacare, has no idea what went wrong in a situation that cost the American taxpayer $1 billion over 3.5 years, still doesn't work, and the President responds with 'I dunno what happened but, as usual, we'll get to the bottom of this'. How strongly you must believe in order to get past these lies and incompetence.
    You seem to be confusing legislation with a website.

    Are you saying that its the responsibility of the Republicans, who voted 100% against this mess, to improve Obamacare? How do you propose they do that?
    I'm saying it is the responsibility of those complaining to offer ways to fix it, when the reality of the situation is it is not going anywhere. A child throws tantrums, an adult makes the best of (what they feel is) a bad situation.

    But let's be honest. Republicans don't WANT to improve it. They don't WANT it to be successful. They have put so much political capital in telling the country it's awful, they feel (likely rightly so) that if they were to be part of the solution to fix the flaws they claim it has, the American citizen would not recognize their contributions to its success and it would instead be counted as a win by Democrats.

    Those who remember what America was
    Will likely remember all the problems it once had, unless nostalgia rears its ugly head.
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No doubt about that. But there are things that the minority party can do, and is proper to do in our system of government to ensure that we are not subject to the tyranny of the majority. But you are correct, we need to win in 2014 the Senate, and keep a strong majority in the house to start to change this, then we need the Presidency in 2016, and we can reverse this law before it does too much damage IMHO.
    What damage will a law requiring people to be insured do? Drop unpaid emergency room visits? Provide people will necessary preventative care?

    We have one of the worst healthcare/insurance systems in all of the developed world. It's hard to imagine Obamacare doing too much damage, given how awful of a state we are already in.

    Oh, I think they are doing exactly what they should be doing at this moment in time.
    And I prefer to think of politics as something not of a team sport, where both sides work to do the best for the American citizen, and not their own monetary interests. I realize reality doesn't conform to my ideal, but it's still my preference.

    If I may, I don't think that it is human nature for someone to help another who continually tells them to eat **** and die. Do you?
    I find if one side quits yelling "eat s*** and die" the other side tends to do the same. As of right now, it's the Republican party who has publicly taken the stance to reject what the Democratic party suggests (which really has more to do with them being the minority party). Perhaps if one would quit yelling, the other would as well.

    Just because Obama, and demo's let the people eat their desert first before the spinach doesn't mean that the spinach is not there does it?
    And much like the clothes the Emperor wore (or didn't), if you tell someone enough times something's there, they'll believe it. Republicans have spent years selling lies to Americans, repeating provably false statements designed to foster rejection of Obamacare. And when someone prefers team politics over facts (and it happens with both parties), then those people are willing to believe what they are told to believe.

    I think what American's don't like is having a cumbersome piece of legislation pushed on them
    It's not really cumbersome at all for most Americans. Obamacare does not apply to small businesses (less than 50 employees), no one has to purchase insurance and if you do choose to have insurance not provided by an employer, all you have to do is sit at your computer and find the best option for you.

    The cumbersome parts of the legislation really only apply to a very small percentage of this country.

    that as this bill was passed possibly their representative was completely shut out of the process in making this law
    This is a popular talking point, but it is not true.

    Almost no one is noting the extraordinary influence Republicans had on the healthcare reform bill crafted by the Senate, as it made its way through the committee process last year. The bill approved by Sen. Christopher Dodd’s Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee, for instance, included 161 amendments authored by Republicans. Only 49 Republican amendments were rejected out of 210 considered. Yet the bill got zero Republican votes when it passed out of the committee.
    You’ll all remember the Senate Finance Committee process, chaired by Montana Sen. Max Baucus. Baucus and President Obama empowered a bipartisan “Gang of Six” from the committee, three Democrats and three Republicans, and they spent the summer locked in negotiations that, again, never produced one Republican vote for the bill in committee. The Finance Committee ultimately scuttled the public option in its version of the bill, looking for GOP (and conservative Democratic) support.
    Fact-checking the GOP on healthcare reform - Salon.com


    I think it's a little subjective to declaratively say that they are not doing what is best for the country
    Doing what's best for the country is making the best of the situation they have. Obamacare is not going anywhere. Democrats control the Senate and the Presidency and even gained House seats in 2012. The Supreme Court, mostly, upheld Obamacare. If the Republicans were doing what they should, they'd work to amend the parts they especially dislike.
    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Trying to plug the leak on the Titanic was a waste of time. Trying to improve the disaster Obamadon'tcare would be too.
    Good point. It's better to take the assured death than waste time on possibly living.

    Sound logic from you, as usual.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    A) I don't think it's a bad situation and I think as time goes on, the truth of Obamacare will win out over the political spin.
    B) It's hard to take Republicans seriously, if they're not offering any ways to improve it besides "get rid of it". That'd be akin to me saying we could improve the Congress if we'd just get rid of the Republican Party. Not very helpful or practical.

    Not really. What we have now (before Obamacare) was dreadful. Everyone knows and agrees.

    You seem to be confusing legislation with a website.

    I'm saying it is the responsibility of those complaining to offer ways to fix it, when the reality of the situation is it is not going anywhere. A child throws tantrums, an adult makes the best of (what they feel is) a bad situation.

    But let's be honest. Republicans don't WANT to improve it. They don't WANT it to be successful. They have put so much political capital in telling the country it's awful, they feel (likely rightly so) that if they were to be part of the solution to fix the flaws they claim it has, the American citizen would not recognize their contributions to its success and it would instead be counted as a win by Democrats.

    Will likely remember all the problems it once had, unless nostalgia rears its ugly head.
    What damage will a law requiring people to be insured do? Drop unpaid emergency room visits? Provide people will necessary preventative care?

    We have one of the worst healthcare/insurance systems in all of the developed world. It's hard to imagine Obamacare doing too much damage, given how awful of a state we are already in.

    And I prefer to think of politics as something not of a team sport, where both sides work to do the best for the American citizen, and not their own monetary interests. I realize reality doesn't conform to my ideal, but it's still my preference.

    I find if one side quits yelling "eat s*** and die" the other side tends to do the same. As of right now, it's the Republican party who has publicly taken the stance to reject what the Democratic party suggests (which really has more to do with them being the minority party). Perhaps if one would quit yelling, the other would as well.

    And much like the clothes the Emperor wore (or didn't), if you tell someone enough times something's there, they'll believe it. Republicans have spent years selling lies to Americans, repeating provably false statements designed to foster rejection of Obamacare. And when someone prefers team politics over facts (and it happens with both parties), then those people are willing to believe what they are told to believe.

    It's not really cumbersome at all for most Americans. Obamacare does not apply to small businesses (less than 50 employees), no one has to purchase insurance and if you do choose to have insurance not provided by an employer, all you have to do is sit at your computer and find the best option for you.

    The cumbersome parts of the legislation really only apply to a very small percentage of this country.

    This is a popular talking point, but it is not true.


    Fact-checking the GOP on healthcare reform - Salon.com


    Doing what's best for the country is making the best of the situation they have. Obamacare is not going anywhere. Democrats control the Senate and the Presidency and even gained House seats in 2012. The Supreme Court, mostly, upheld Obamacare. If the Republicans were doing what they should, they'd work to amend the parts they especially dislike.
    Good point. It's better to take the assured death than waste time on possibly living.

    Sound logic from you, as usual.
    a

    Amazing how much confidence you have in a Federal Govt. that has created a 17 trillion dollar debt and has trillions more in unfunded liabilities for other social entitlement programs, SS and Medicare. Guess that isn't enough for some people. You have no idea what is going to happen when inflation hits and you see the cost of that big Federal Govt. you are supporting.

    Wonder what it is about the liberal ideology that creates loyalty in people like you who ignore results and still buy rhetoric?

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    a

    Amazing how
    Amazing how you cannot answer my simple question I asked you multiple times. Don't worry, you can keep trying to change the subject all you want, we'll both know deep inside how badly this thread has gone for you. So keep derailing, keep distracting but we both know you cannot answer my simple question. j-mac? He answered honestly and we're having a good discussion. You? Not so much.

    I wonder what it is about some people where they're so afraid of being on the wrong side of the position they cannot answer a simple question, even though others who are mostly on their side have.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Amazing how you cannot answer my simple question I asked you multiple times. Don't worry, you can keep trying to change the subject all you want, we'll both know deep inside how badly this thread has gone for you. So keep derailing, keep distracting but we both know you cannot answer my simple question.

    j-mac? He answered honestly. I wonder what it is about some people where they're so afraid of being on the wrong side of the position they cannot answer a simple question, even though others who are mostly on their side have.
    The subject will always be the role of the Federal govt. and the answer is it isn't to provide for individual responsibilities. You keep denying reality. You seem to think that the answer to all your problems is Obamacare but that is because you are a poor student of history and have no concept of personal responsibility. The first step to making Obamacare better is to repeal it and then return the power to the states where it belongs. You seem to not understand the concept or the fact that I have answered your questions.

    Now tell me how you can support Obamacare in spite of historical evidence as to the failure of the Federal Govt.? What is it that you know that the majority in the country who don't support Obamacare don't?

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The subject will always be the role of the Federal govt. and the answer is it isn't to provide for individual responsibilities. You keep denying reality. You seem to think that the answer to all your problems is Obamacare but that is because you are a poor student of history and have no concept of personal responsibility. The first step to making Obamacare better is to repeal it and then return the power to the states where it belongs. You seem to not understand the concept or the fact that I have answered your questions.

    Now tell me how you can support Obamacare in spite of historical evidence as to the failure of the Federal Govt.? What is it that you know that the majority in the country who don't support Obamacare don't?
    I'm sorry, I'm still waiting on you to answer my question. When you answer my question from before, I'll begin to entertain responding to your ignorant, offensive and utterly ridiculous claims of what I know and believe.

    Answer my simple question or at least admit you cannot. That's all I'm waiting on.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I'm sorry, I'm still waiting on you to answer my question. When you answer my question from before, I'll begin to entertain responding to your ignorant, offensive and utterly ridiculous claims of what I know and believe.

    Answer my simple question or at least admit you cannot. That's all I'm waiting on.
    I have answered your question, you repeal Obamacare to offer a better alternative

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I have answered your question, you repeal Obamacare to offer a better alternative
    But that does NOT answer my question. Go back and read my question again if you've forgotten the question.

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