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Thread: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    I dunno, Bubba. This ACA Frankenstein probably isn't going to make it no matter what they do unless they delay it, and if they delay it they have a whole new set of problems to **** up. Maybe a solar powered set of defib paddles will help. We're rapidly approaching that time Obama described as the point at which perhaps just a pill will help and make ever so much more sense than to throw good money into a dying effort.
    I bet the only thing that gets delayed is the "benefit" portion, all the taxes and fees will probably carry on without problem...

    Afterall, the only thing the government does efficiently is collect money.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    [/B]And the $640 million number was what was reported for the one contractor. The only spin here is you trying to spin the number as presented for all contractors, not just the one, which it was originally reported to be.


    https://web.archive.org/web/20131008...-website-cost/

    I find it amusing you keep projecting your own actions of spin onto me, when all I'm doing is simply speaking the truth. I really wish you'd drop the politics in your posting and just start speaking facts.

    I have never spoken to Reid, so I'm not sure why you think I would talk to him.
    LOL.
    Spin, twist, wiggle....you're still at it.
    Here's what you typed out: "I'll even post information from a source which has absolutely no reason to try and lower the number:" then you hotlinked a 93.7 million number for CGI. Just one contractor and no government costs included in your post.

    "when all I'm doing is simply speaking the truth." LOL. Misrepresenting numbers from one company has little to do with the truth. You used it as spin.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    LOL.
    Spin, twist, wiggle....you're still at it.
    Here's what you typed out: "I'll even post information from a source which has absolutely no reason to try and lower the number:" then you hotlinked a 93.7 million number for CGI. Just one contractor and no government costs included in your post.

    "when all I'm doing is simply speaking the truth." LOL. Misrepresenting numbers from one company has little to do with the truth. You used it as spin.
    Thanks, he asks for one example of lies, and the problem I have is isolating just one...

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    But a non-extremist would realize Obamacare does not put the government in charge of your healthcare, but rather provide standards insurers must adhere to in order to provide a basic coverage.


    A non-extremist knows that if Obamadon'tcare had no intention of being in charge of a person's healthcare, the government would not have placed mandated coverage on the customer's. They could have set up their "standards" for people that could choose to buy their type insurance from their exchange or left it up to the customer to shop elsewhere.

    A non-extremist also knows that debt owed to ourselves is another disaster just waiting for it's time. That huge debt is a perfect representation of governments incompetence and wasteful spending on present and future disasters such as Obamadon'tcare.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Outstanding Post, too bad, Obama supporters like iguanaman will ignore the content. Far too many don't understand the role of the Federal and State governments as they want to equate what Romney did to a Federal Program ignoring the magnitude and scope of a federal program vs. that of a state program plus the demands of the Federal govt. for more power especially create more dependence to control people's votes and maintain power
    Agreed, but I am holding out hope that true discourse will win the day...I am trying to tone back, my rhetoric, and my methods of approaching the argument. Hopefully, by example, I can bring forth a better, more convincing argument. But, thanks for your acknowledgment.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    The only thing that appears to be consistent with Americans on this forum is that both sides understand very well that their country is failing and in big trouble. Until some degree of moderated approach to the problems is dealt with it's pretty obvious that the ingrained hate toward others and their politics will prevent any remedy.

    I would suggest that's much more likely to happen after Obama's term is over. The teabagger ideology will be sidelined for something that is much more workable and that will be because the reason for the racist hating is no longer sitting in the WH.

    It's really now only a matter of how much Americans want to destroy their country and it's economy in the next three years while Obama is in office.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Michael66;1062476707]First of all, I don't understand your argument that seems to be saying that the US has a disadvantage due to ten times the population of Canada. I would suggest that a larger population could be considered an advantage as it appears to be with trade between countries. And we also know that larger countries than the US population wise have very good universal health care systems for all their people. So I think your idea of a larger population is simply invalid.
    You seem to also ignore the degrees to which regulations, legal suits, and Federal involvement add to the costs of healthcare. It is you that doesn't seem to understand 50 sovereign states and 312 million people vs. Canadian population and govt. You further seem to ignore wait times and the fact that Canadian people are coming to this country for healthcare. You believe in the concept and ignore the reality. What you BELIEVE with regard to other countries healthcare is irrelevant and based upon what you have been led to believe.

    Likewise with your comments on having 50 sovereign states. I see no reason why that's not invalid too.
    Because our Founders in their wisdom created a Constitution and believed in a small central govt. If an issue doesn't appear in the Constitution it becomes a state issue, i.e. marriage, healthcare. You don't seem to grasp the concept and know very little about U.S. history.

    I certainly don't ignore waste and fraud, I comment on it frequently on this forum as regards to your health care system. Canada is doing it better in health care for roughly half as much money as your country is currently doing it, per capita. Again, your objections to my post appear to be invalid.
    Your opinion noted. Your comments mean nothing like everyone else's as results matter not comments. Results show we have a 17 trillion dollar debt and cannot afford what is a state and local issue stemming from personal responsibilities.

    If your Medicare and SS are being abused then it's likely due to problems in your system of administering those programs. What isn't in doubt is that they are both very necessary in a first world society. We don't consider our SS or equivalent of your Medicare to be abused in such an egregious manner as you appear to be saying yours is. That could be due to either your exaggerating or once again due to poor management of your social programs.
    Yes, showing that a federal bureaucracy administered by Federal bureaucrats for 312 million people is ripe with waste, fraud, and abuse. A little research will show exactly the extent of the waste, fraud, and abuse in our social programs.

    I consider the obvious dysfunction in your government largely due to your GOP party's obstructionist policy since Obama took office. That is especially noticeable with the outrageous waste which was brought on by Cruz and the teabaggers just recently. And I never do see any constructive criticism of Obama which could lead to him compromising in his approach to governing. I just see negativism and racist generated hate toward him.
    Your opinion noted and may be coming from a belief in the nanny state and the govt. being that parent that many have never had. You call dissent waste and I call it the rights of the people. I don't believe it is the Federal Government's role to take on personal responsibility issues. Also the next time you decide to defame the name of the T.E.A. Party I suggest you do some research and find out what it really means to be a member

    In truth, I would see the US adopting a form of socially responsible capitalism that would be similar to all other successful first world countries. That alone could elevate your country out of the current crisis it is suffering. And that kind of change is undoubtedly the kind of change Obama is attempting to bring about. You only need to come to an understanding that socially responsible government is not socialism. Canada is living proof of that with our brand of capitalism that works.
    Canada has made some great changes and moved towards a conservative government but Canada is being defended by the United States and thus doesn't have the defense budget we have so comparing the U.S. to Canada is like comparing apples to oranges. The current crisis we face is due to too much govt. and too much dependence on that govt. Our Founders are turning over in their graves. Too many Americans and people like you have no concept of American History

    There are no other answers for your problems and there are no easy answers. I would suggest that you 'will' change in due course and it will either be willingly under a conservative government and president or a more liberal one. And if it's not willingly then it will be kicking and screaming. There's just no other recipe for survival in this 21st. century. There no longer is enough to go around while supporting the old American way anymore.
    I did change in due course growing up a Democrat and liberal. that changed over time when I realized that the Democratic Party was all talk and little action other than to build a power base. The recipe you are promoting I reject because it is one of big govt., massive dependence, and equal outcome vs. equal opportunity.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    LOL.
    Spin, twist, wiggle....you're still at it.
    Here's what you typed out: "I'll even post information from a source which has absolutely no reason to try and lower the number:" then you hotlinked a 93.7 million number for CGI. Just one contractor and no government costs included in your post.
    What part of this is difficult for you to understand?

    The $640 million was originally reported as the price for one contractor, which I disproved. I used that source to show the $640 million (which is actually $634 million, but whatever) was the TOTAL contract for all services provided and to be provided.

    Why are you struggling so mightily with simple facts? There is no spin, it's a simple fact.

    "when all I'm doing is simply speaking the truth." LOL. Misrepresenting numbers from one company has little to do with the truth. You used it as spin.
    I did not misrepresent or spin anything, as I've now proven multiple times. Either you're incapable of understanding the basic English langauge or you're getting your jollies from accusing me of spin. Either way, it reflects poorly on you.
    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    A non-extremist knows that if Obamadon'tcare had no intention of being in charge of a person's healthcare, the government would not have placed mandated coverage on the customer's.
    Given the difficulty you seem to be having with simple numbers and simple facts, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised you seem to have confused the difference between healthcare and insurance. Oh, and as I said, nobody is forcing you to have insurance. You are welcome to simply pay the tax.
    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Thanks, he asks for one example of lies, and the problem I have is isolating just one...
    The fact you think his misrepresentation of my position is representative of me lying is incredibly amusing.

    I'm still waiting for you to provide one example of something I've said to you which is untrue. Your inability to provide even one example is quite telling.
    Last edited by Slyfox696; 10-28-13 at 02:32 PM.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael66 View Post
    The only thing that appears to be consistent with Americans on this forum is that both sides understand very well that their country is failing and in big trouble. Until some degree of moderated approach to the problems is dealt with it's pretty obvious that the ingrained hate toward others and their politics will prevent any remedy.

    I would suggest that's much more likely to happen after Obama's term is over. The teabagger ideology will be sidelined for something that is much more workable and that will be because the reason for the racist hating is no longer sitting in the WH.

    It's really now only a matter of how much Americans want to destroy their country and it's economy in the next three years while Obama is in office.
    Michael, it may shock you to learn that I think you made a couple of good points in here. I agree that the division of the country has everyone knowing that we are in trouble as a country, and that we all need to "moderate" our approach. But it really is interesting how you can make such a cogent point with that, then proceed to use the rhetoric of division to bash opposition in the same posting....Truly an art. Not a good one though.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You seem to also ignore the degrees to which regulations, legal suits, and Federal involvement add to the costs of healthcare. It is you that doesn't seem to understand 50 sovereign states and 312 million people vs. Canadian population and govt. You further seem to ignore wait times and the fact that Canadian people are coming to this country for healthcare. You believe in the concept and ignore the reality. What you BELIEVE with regard to other countries healthcare is irrelevant and based upon what you have been led to believe.
    I don't ignore wait times but even if I did I would still know that the Canadian system is regarded as more highly rated than your system. The WHO's facts don't lie. Some very wealthy Canadians who have hundreds of thousands or millions to spend do go the the US for immediate treatments that only large amounts of money can buy. But in a close analysis, indications are that for the ordinary millions of people, the wait times aren't significantly different in our two countries.



    Because our Founders in their wisdom created a Constitution and believed in a small central govt. If an issue doesn't appear in the Constitution it becomes a state issue, i.e. marriage, healthcare. You don't seem to grasp the concept and know very little about U.S. history.
    I know enough to say that if an issue isn't mentioned in your constitution it doesn't automatically become a state issue. And I know enough to say that the ACA has been found to be within your constitution by the SCOTUS. You've deliberately lied to me based on that fact.



    Your opinion noted. Your comments mean nothing like everyone else's as results matter not comments. Results show we have a 17 trillion dollar debt and cannot afford what is a state and local issue stemming from personal responsibilities.
    Agreed that results matter. I'm really saying that the teabagger mentality and it's actions have proven to be counter-productive to achieveing results. My comments therefore mean as much as anyone else's on this forum. I think that if you are interested at all in reducing the 17 trillion then you would be concentrating on cooperation rather than haranguing on more obstructionism. I think most of the problem is that Bush2 was such a dismal failure that set your country on a course to destruction and the obstructionism by the GOP/baggers has prevented any kind of recovery.



    Yes, showing that a federal bureaucracy administered by Federal bureaucrats for 312 million people is ripe with waste, fraud, and abuse. A little research will show exactly the extent of the waste, fraud, and abuse in our social programs.
    Agreed. Your government is fraudulent, wasteful, abusive, and also dysfunctional due to politicians being bribed by lobbyists. That was happening long before Obama. And there is no will to stop it either. It's a system in which a teabagger mentality can exist but couldn't exist without it. Take away the lobbying and the baggers couldn't survive. Likewise, take away Obama!



    Your opinion noted and may be coming from a belief in the nanny state and the govt. being that parent that many have never had. You call dissent waste and I call it the rights of the people. I don't believe it is the Federal Government's role to take on personal responsibility issues. Also the next time you decide to defame the name of the T.E.A. Party I suggest you do some research and find out what it really means to be a member
    I would suggest that not having a parent is just as frequent in the US as it is in Canada. Hardly a reason for what you term as a nanny state and I term as a socially responsible style of capitalism. What works and what doesn't work can be the only real consieeration. Canada's works. It appears that everyone of every different pol persuasion in the US agrees that yours is not working.

    I know very well the stated reasons for the bagger party but I also know that the racist element is more prevalent and visible than the stated reason of paying less taxes. I also know that paying less taxes is a recipe for disaster. I'm not sure of exactly who you even think is paying too much tax? It's obvious the very wealthy aren't paying enough. FActs on income inequality in your country don't lie.

    The current crisis we face is due to too much govt. and too much dependence on that govt.
    While I consider that we don't have too much government and too much dependence on government. Excuses for 'why' it works aside, it appears that you are suggesting that your government is the 'nanny' state government and our isn't! A refreshing twist out of an American's mouth!



    Canada has made some great changes and moved towards a conservative government but Canada is being defended by the United States and thus doesn't have the defense budget we have so comparing the U.S. to Canada is like comparing apples to oranges. The current crisis we face is due to too much govt. and too much dependence on that govt. Our Founders are turning over in their graves. Too many Americans and people like you have no concept of American History
    I've been preached to by Americans so many times now that I couldn't help but not know what the issues are and what the history appears to dictate for the future. I hear you complaining about your defence budget at the same time as I hear you complaining about too much spending. Don't you think that's rather inconsistent. Regardless, all I'm concerned about as a Canadian is success in government. Our mild swings back and forth between more conservatism and less is working fine. In fact, I consider it essential to good government.



    I did change in due course growing up a Democrat and liberal. that changed over time when I realized that the Democratic Party was all talk and little action other than to build a power base. The recipe you are promoting I reject because it is one of big govt., massive dependence, and equal outcome vs. equal opportunity.
    By your own admission your government is too big. Maybe you should be looking at other countries with more liberal governments to find something that works. It's your government that has proven to be dysfunctional and that happened before Obama's time.

    If the teabagger party would separate itself from the racist hate that is so recognizable then perhaps it could be taken seriously as representing that which it attempts to stand for. Until it does then it stands are representing racist hate more than any other quality or lack of. And of course it can never succeed as long as it is aligned with racism. Rout out the haters and the racists and only then will it be taken seriously by the mainstream perhaps? Only bear in mind that after the racism and hate is banished from your midst then it will again revert to being a 'libertarian' effort and that will again be on the fringe with no more than 15% support.

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