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Thread: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

  1. #121
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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    In other words, Maggie, you are defending a turd that is as much killing what YOU want as it is killing what I want. You just aren't being hurt as badly as the rest of us in the process.
    I agree with much of what you said, but I don't understand this ^^.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Yours is also spin... It was written by the insurance companies that intend to benefit from Obamacare... Which was virtually identical to the plan given by Romney.

    When will Americans realize that they are run by an equivalent of a mafia that shares power over election cycles. And just like a mafia card game, sure they all hate each other, and every so often they kill (politically in this case) each other... But if someone outside threatens the game (tea party) they will both step up to defend the game in their own ways.

    Oh and btw, the sentiment of the tea parties is growing... Tangibly. It's not about the tea party, even if / when it does it will come back in a stronger incarnation...
    Not true. But don't take my word for it. Here is an article from Forbes Magazine. Romney's plan WAS the Heritage Foundation plan.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Well, when you're only charging people $104 a month from age 65 through their death for hospital insurance? Why is that surprising? And why shouldn't people be charged more? At $208 a month ad infinitum it's also quite a bargain. Indexing for income alone would bring billions into the fund.

    The Medicare Supplement plans aren't subsidized. My mom is 86. She pays $305 a month for her Supplement. So, at aged 86, she pays $409 a month for her hospitalization. Complete coverage.
    How much does a standard single two-day visit to the hospital cost? If you are (say) 86 which means that you average 12-20 days a year, you aren't really buying health insurance - you are pre-paying for your costs, and receiving a huge subsidy when you do so.

    And as doctors begin to see the writing on the wall, we're getting closer to a model that doesn't over-treat the elderly. The amount of money thrown at terminal disease in the form of faux cures is going to decrease as time goes on.
    That is sadly incorrect - as we expand the third-party-payment model, what we see is less price sensitivity, not more. What induces doctors to treat old people less is simply that Medicare/Medicaid will not reimburse them as well for taking care of the old or the poor.

    Unfunded Liability for Medicare at current runs in the $60 Trillion range. There isn't a way to pay that by bumping up premiums a couple hundred dollars, and there sure isn't a way to do so if we are expanding it to pay for three to four times as many people.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Issuance of public debt.
    Good thing there's no Keynesian endpoint, eh?

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I agree with much of what you said, but I don't understand this ^^.

    Which part don't you understand? The ACA is a turd, you are defending it, and it is standing in the way of what you and I actually want (which, granted, are two different things) and costs millions of people in skyrocketing premiums and deductibles or costs them their insurance altogether and in many cases costs them their jobs. That it potentially makes your dealings with insurance companies somewhat easier pales in comparison.
    Last edited by jmotivator; 10-23-13 at 11:54 AM.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    How much does a standard single two-day visit to the hospital cost? If you are (say) 86 which means that you average 12-20 days a year, you aren't really buying health insurance - you are pre-paying for your costs, and receiving a huge subsidy when you do so.
    You're confusing me with this data . . . unsourced, I might add. This has nothing to do with whether or not a Medicare model would work. The model would work. It's the taxes collected for it that would have to change.

    That is sadly incorrect - as we expand the third-party-payment model, what we see is less price sensitivity, not more. What induces doctors to treat old people less is simply that Medicare/Medicaid will not reimburse them as well for taking care of the old or the poor.
    As we shine a bright light on the cost of treatment and the cost of insurance to cover said treatment, as we increase premiums to accurately reflect projected losses, people will suddenly become outraged that their doctor is charging them $130 for 10 minutes of his time. As their deductibles rise, they will question themselves before running to the ER and wonder whether or not they really need that CT scan for a broken arm. When more money is coming out of their pockets, costs will go down.

    Unfunded Liability for Medicare at current runs in the $60 Trillion range. There isn't a way to pay that by bumping up premiums a couple hundred dollars, and there sure isn't a way to do so if we are expanding it to pay for three to four times as many people.
    Medicare's "unfunded liability" is $24 trillion. Social Security $21 trillion. (Based on 2010 numbers) PolitiFact Florida | Romney says debt plus unfunded liabilities equals $520,000 per household

    These numbers are misleading because they make the assumption that everything will remain exactly as it is -- expenditures, benefits and premiums. That's not going to happen.

    People making $100,000+ in retirement should be paying a great deal more for their Medicare insurance. Not just a few hundred dollars . . . the correct actuarial amount to cover their care. There needs to be a progressive premium that depends upon their income...pension benefits...investment...everything. Perhaps even taking assets into account.

    We're so screwed up it's pathetic. I personally know two people who are milking a system that allows them to do so. One has over $1 million in assets and is on Medicare's Advantage Plan. He pays $104 a month -- and no more. That's ridiculous. Another who has over a half-million dollars in assets who gets his medication without having to buy Part D for $5 a prescription through a subsidized plan. He pays nothing for the plan itself. Both of these examples are ridiculous. The system needs drastic repair; but the MODEL itself works.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Which part don't you understand? The ACA is a turd, you are defending it, and it is standing in the way of what you and I actually want (which, granted, are two different things) and costs millions of people in skyrocketing premiums and deductibles or costs them their insurance altogether and in many cases costs them their jobs. That it potentially makes your dealings with insurance companies somewhat easier pales in comparison.
    Something had to be done. I wish it had been an expansion of Medicare. The ACA will need fixing, there's no doubt about that. But something had to be done. The ACA is a start.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Something had to be done. I wish it had been an expansion of Medicare. The ACA will need fixing, there's no doubt about that. But something had to be done. The ACA is a start.
    There are things that had to be done but none of them are ever going to be fixed by another govt. bureaucracy. Medicare and SS were well intended programs that have become bloated and filled with waste, fraud, and abuse. ACA is no different, just another slush fund for the Federal Govt. Nothing is going to change until the Federal Govt. gets out of the business but first has to correct the problems they created. Dissolve the unified budget, put Medicare and SS where it belongs along with the FICA taxes that fund it. Until that happens nothing is going to change and any attempts at healthcare reform will fail

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Not true. But don't take my word for it. Here is an article from Forbes Magazine. Romney's plan WAS the Heritage Foundation plan.
    Yes, and Liz fowler, one of the main people credited for crafting the bill was also a VP for one of the largest insurance companies in the us...

    So, we are making the same point... This was made by and for insurance companies and nothing more.

    It's all about maximizing profits; which means maximizing cost (to customers) while minimizing services offered.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Yes, and Liz fowler, one of the main people credited for crafting the bill was also a VP for one of the largest insurance companies in the us...

    So, we are making the same point... This was made by and for insurance companies and nothing more.

    It's all about maximizing profits; which means maximizing cost (to customers) while minimizing services offered.
    Isn't typical of liberal arrogance that now is calling for the best and brightest minds of America coming in to fix a program whose implementation has been a disaster. Shouldn't have been done prior to attempting the role out and creation of the website? Here we are hundreds of millions of dollars spent, a website that is a disaster, and supporters still giving Obama credibility?

    Rather frustrating for thinking people to see the failures of Obama being ignored all because of the rhetoric he speaks.

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