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Thread: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

  1. #111
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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Although I still blame the Republicans for starting the shutdown, I will find it quite amusing if the delay is granted by the White House. That is because around day 10 or there about the Republicans dropped their demand to defund Obamacare and instead replaced it with the one year delay in implementing it. I do think the White House and everyone involved in Obamacare knew of the problems to come but were in a hurry to get the thing implemented on schedule, good, bad or indifferent.

    If the delay is granted by the White House, what this means to me is Obama, Reid etc. should have accepted the Republican offer on day 10 and ended the shutdown then. It seems the last roughly 7 days of the shut was over a fight that that the White House and company probably knew they would have to do anyway. The last seven days was a needless fight and a waste of time, that is if the delay is granted.

    In a political sense, the last 7 days seems like an act to twist that knife into the backs of the Republicans a few more times. Although the Republicans deserved a whole lot of twisting for starting this needless shutdown in the first place. I one looks at this from afar and not through partisan red or blue colored glasses, it may seem the GOP actually won an important battle to them during the shut down. I wonder if this aspect, that is if the delay is granted, will be reported?
    Check that:

    House GOP's Third Shutdown Offer Would Delay Individual Mandate By One Year

    The 'delay the mandate' offer was the day BEFORE the shutdown began...furthering your amusing point
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    PMedicare, like SS, relies on a large population paying taxes while receiving no benefits, and a smaller population paying no taxes, while receiving benefits. Clearly that model doesn't fit UHC, because everyone is getting a benefit throughout.
    This is a good point. But not something that can't be easily overcome. A Medicare tax of .9% is not something that can't be adjusted upward. When you add up Medicaid and Obamacare subsidies, taxpayers are going to be paying lots of $$ into healthcare. May as well pour it into a single-payer system, in my opinion. And one that's already proven to work...

  3. #113
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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Although I still blame the Republicans for starting the shutdown, I will find it quite amusing if the delay is granted by the White House. That is because around day 10 or there about the Republicans dropped their demand to defund Obamacare and instead replaced it with the one year delay in implementing it. I do think the White House and everyone involved in Obamacare knew of the problems to come but were in a hurry to get the thing implemented on schedule, good, bad or indifferent.

    If the delay is granted by the White House, what this means to me is Obama, Reid etc. should have accepted the Republican offer on day 10 and ended the shutdown then. It seems the last roughly 7 days of the shut was over a fight that that the White House and company probably knew they would have to do anyway. The last seven days was a needless fight and a waste of time, that is if the delay is granted.

    In a political sense, the last 7 days seems like an act to twist that knife into the backs of the Republicans a few more times. Although the Republicans deserved a whole lot of twisting for starting this needless shutdown in the first place. I one looks at this from afar and not through partisan red or blue colored glasses, it may seem the GOP actually won an important battle to them during the shut down. I wonder if this aspect, that is if the delay is granted, will be reported?
    It's even funnier than your think because the House has been offering the postponement compromise since at least mid-July, about the same time the Healthcare.gov site was failing its preliminary tests and contractors were advising the system wouldn't be ready.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    No, I'd model it after Part A, Part B and Part D. Medicare might need tweaking, but it's one helluva lot less a boondoggle than this 10,000-page monstrosity. Right now Medicare Part B costs $104 a month. There are no subsidies available. If it costed 25% more . . . or the premium were progressive based upon income . . . it could afford a slightly higher reimbursement.

    I don't KNOW how Medicare reimbursement compares to regular insurance. But I know that most every doctor takes Medicare patients, with or without a supplement, so I guess there's money to be made there.
    You are definitely right that Medicare is less of a destructive spaggetti pile than this thing.

    However, Medicare is already going broke, features massive amounts of fraud, and uses the reimbursement schedule to off-load costs onto private plans (though doctors are increasingly refusing to take Medicaid or Medicare patients for that reason). We don't have the financial ability to expand Medicare to the entire U.S. Even if we got rid of the entire DOD we couldn't raise enough funds to be able to support expanding Medicare.

    Medicare is going to collapse unless we start to reduce its' expenditures very soon. And it is going to take Social Security with it. That's not crazy ole cpwill saying it - it's the CBO, the IMF, and the President's own Deficit Reduction Commission saying it. Expanding those expenditures in the dramatic fashion you are discussing simply isn't within the realm of fiscal plausibility.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    This is a good point. But not something that can't be easily overcome. A Medicare tax of .9% is not something that can't be adjusted upward. When you add up Medicaid and Obamacare subsidies, taxpayers are going to be paying lots of $$ into healthcare. May as well pour it into a single-payer system, in my opinion. And one that's already proven to work...
    We are currently collecting record high tax revenues, but we would need about 6% more of GDP in revenue in order to expand Medicare in the way you are suggesting. So, about 24.5-15% of GDP, all told.

    We have never, under any tax regime, to include back in the day when we had 90% marginal rates, ever collected anything close to that amount.




    Futhermore, Medicare costs are already set to explode, which means that that ~24.5-25% of GDP requirement will be the opening minimum, and that the requirement will only get higher.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    You are definitely right that Medicare is less of a destructive spaggetti pile than this thing.

    However, Medicare is already going broke, features massive amounts of fraud, and uses the reimbursement schedule to off-load costs onto private plans (though doctors are increasingly refusing to take Medicaid or Medicare patients for that reason). We don't have the financial ability to expand Medicare to the entire U.S. Even if we got rid of the entire DOD we couldn't raise enough funds to be able to support expanding Medicare.

    Medicare is going to collapse unless we start to reduce its' expenditures very soon. And it is going to take Social Security with it. That's not crazy ole cpwill saying it - it's the CBO, the IMF, and the President's own Deficit Reduction Commission saying it. Expanding those expenditures in the dramatic fashion you are discussing simply isn't within the realm of fiscal plausibility.
    The problem with Medicare and SS is the unified budget created by LBJ and the subsequent spending of excess money in the account on the idea that the account would be replenished at sometime in the future. That never happened as the bureaucrats in DC continued to spend the money and replace them with IOU's that have to be funded at some time in the future. Can someone please tell me where the money is going to come from to fund those IOU's?

    I would never support a single payer system unless the Unified budget was dissolved and laws in place to protect the taxpayers from the abuse that has occurred with their SS and Medicare contributions.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The problem with Medicare and SS is the unified budget created by LBJ and the subsequent spending of excess money in the account on the idea that the account would be replenished at sometime in the future. That never happened as the bureaucrats in DC continued to spend the money and replace them with IOU's that have to be funded at some time in the future. Can someone please tell me where the money is going to come from to fund those IOU's?

    I would never support a single payer system unless the Unified budget was dissolved and laws in place to protect the taxpayers from the abuse that has occurred with their SS and Medicare contributions.
    Issuance of public debt.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    This is a good point. But not something that can't be easily overcome. A Medicare tax of .9% is not something that can't be adjusted upward. When you add up Medicaid and Obamacare subsidies, taxpayers are going to be paying lots of $$ into healthcare. May as well pour it into a single-payer system, in my opinion. And one that's already proven to work...
    Here is a stat for you: The US ranks #3 in the world in public health care funding per capita.

    Since the US Government pays more per capita in health care than almost any European state already, why not take all the medicare and medicaid money and create a UHC system with just that money that THEY ALREADY HAVE and let it compete with the private market, or let the private market supplement the government system?

    Are democrats so stupid that they couldn't figure this out or just too power hungry to pass a health care bill that doesn't screw over the middle class in the process and doesn't require more taxes?

    In other words, Maggie, you are defending a turd that is as much killing what YOU want as it is killing what I want. You just aren't being hurt as badly as the rest of us in the process.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    You are definitely right that Medicare is less of a destructive spaggetti pile than this thing.

    However, Medicare is already going broke, features massive amounts of fraud, and uses the reimbursement schedule to off-load costs onto private plans (though doctors are increasingly refusing to take Medicaid or Medicare patients for that reason). We don't have the financial ability to expand Medicare to the entire U.S. Even if we got rid of the entire DOD we couldn't raise enough funds to be able to support expanding Medicare.

    Medicare is going to collapse unless we start to reduce its' expenditures very soon. And it is going to take Social Security with it. That's not crazy ole cpwill saying it - it's the CBO, the IMF, and the President's own Deficit Reduction Commission saying it. Expanding those expenditures in the dramatic fashion you are discussing simply isn't within the realm of fiscal plausibility.
    Well, when you're only charging people $104 a month from age 65 through their death for hospital insurance? Why is that surprising? And why shouldn't people be charged more? At $208 a month ad infinitum it's also quite a bargain. Indexing for income alone would bring billions into the fund.

    The Medicare Supplement plans aren't subsidized. My mom is 86. She pays $305 a month for her Supplement. So, at aged 86, she pays $409 a month for her hospitalization. Complete coverage.

    And as doctors begin to see the writing on the wall, we're getting closer to a model that doesn't over-treat the elderly. The amount of money thrown at terminal disease in the form of faux cures is going to decrease as time goes on.

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    Re: 'Delay’ suddenly not a dirty word at White House

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Issuance of public debt.
    The uninsured is state debt not national public debt and those IOU's that replaced "borrowed" money from the entitlement funds have to be funded, where is the money going to come from? You are right however in that the govt. will have to borrow more money to fund those IOU's or print it, both bode poorly for the taxpayers.

    My error in responding to quickly
    Last edited by Conservative; 10-23-13 at 11:36 AM.

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