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Thread: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups [W:165]

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Were these high profile American targets terrorist in another country at the time. If GWB had carpet bombed the city they were in you would not hear a word from them is the point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    partisan politics and the fact that Obama had high profile targets that were american citizens?
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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Were these high profile American targets terrorist in another country at the time. If GWB had carpet bombed the city they were in you would not hear a word from them is the point.
    well, you can ignore there were key differences in how the drone program was publicly conducted and that partisan politics have played clearly on the reactions of both democrats and republicans, or you can simply reduce it to racism. Though I would say your reduction to racism was just an expression of your partisan politics

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael66 View Post
    I don't know if Bush2 used drones to the extent Obama is using them. Or more accurately probably, is that there is little difference in how either of them used drones. That's probably because of once again the racist hate for Obama while Bush2 using drones was either mostly ignored or even applauded by some.

    So what's the difference other than many American haters and racists now have a black president to hate?

    Are the racists ever embarrassed over being told the obvious?
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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    What exactly do you consider a partisan?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    well, you can ignore there were key differences in how the drone program was publicly conducted and that partisan politics have played clearly on the reactions of both democrats and republicans, or you can simply reduce it to racism. Though I would say your reduction to racism was just an expression of your partisan politics
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    seems a rather silly strategy to deal with a real problem
    What real problem? That other countries exist and have different ideas than we do? That there are some people who belong to the same overall culture as some of these people who are violent against us? That these nations might not necessarily want our businesses to exploit their countries? What real problem are these attacks addressing, and how are these killings going to solve them?
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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    This issue really has nothing to do with political parties. It barely has anything to do with comparing Obama and Bush.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    What real problem? That other countries exist and have different ideas than we do? That there are some people who belong to the same overall culture as some of these people who are violent against us? That these nations might not necessarily want our businesses to exploit their countries? What real problem are these attacks addressing, and how are these killings going to solve them?
    Some people might want it and some people might not. But their leaders and businesspeople certainly want it. Should we ignore those people and just listen to anyone who's unhappy? Moreover, why should the US prioritize the wants and needs of other nations over its wants and need, anyway? The job of a government in international relations is pretty clearly to act in the self-interest of its own people- that's why it exists.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    This issue really has nothing to do with political parties. It barely has anything to do with comparing Obama and Bush.
    agree. but there is the similarity of both Obama and Bush that used the counterinsurgency strategy (nationbuilding)
    that didn't work in Iraq ,
    and Bush/Obama tried in Afganistan, while Obama greatly expanded the use of drones - not just in Afgansitan/Pakistan but also Yemen.

    Yemen uses a counter terrorism strategy - kill - no nationbuilding; but it's also flawed with signature strikes, and false info "called in" from various sources.

    Yemen is similar to Afganistan, in that it is a civil war - which is now similiar to Iraq -as we blew up the place along sectarian lines.

    The BIG similairity is everything we touch gets worse off.
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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    agree. but there is the similarity of both Obama and Bush that used the counterinsurgency strategy (nationbuilding)
    that didn't work in Iraq ,
    and Bush/Obama tried in Afganistan, while Obama greatly expanded the use of drones - not just in Afgansitan/Pakistan but also Yemen.

    Yemen uses a counter terrorism strategy - kill - no nationbuilding; but it's also flawed with signature strikes, and false info "called in" from various sources.

    Yemen is similar to Afganistan, in that it is a civil war - which is now similiar to Iraq -as we blew up the place along sectarian lines.

    The BIG similairity is everything we touch gets worse off.
    Thanks for the post, a cut above much of the nonsense usually posted here.

    I like the distinction between counterinsurgency and counterterrorism- I've found it's something a lot of people don't understand and use interchangeably. However, I disagree that it was attempted and didn't work in Iraq. I feel strongly that a huge reason why Iraq went to **** was precisely because the Bush Administration didn't understand anything about either counterinsurgency OR counterterrorism and simply focused on the traditional concepts of invasion and the deposition of Iraqi government. Of course, later Bush saw his mistake and tried to rectify it, but the genie was already out of the bottle.

    I also disagree that Afghanistan got much "worse". It's been a ****ty place for over 30 years now. The US invasion didn't really change much there. The Taliban had only "won" ~5 or so years previous to the American invasion and even then the Northern Alliance ruled a third of the country, with skirmishes on their "borders". And the US "touched" Mindanao and it's better now than then.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Since Terrorist don't meet the legal definition of a Combatant, they are all civilians.

    As to the rest, if you are hanging around with know terrorist and a drone drops a bomb on him while you are nearby, oh, should of found better friends to handout with.
    Wow. Just wow. So if you're innocent you deserve to die because of what your associates, family members, coworkers, or just the random guy down the street does?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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