Page 19 of 33 FirstFirst ... 9171819202129 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 190 of 328

Thread: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups [W:165]

  1. #181
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    I can't make the same point to you repeatedly and have you not understand. Thanks for the fun.
    Because you have no adequate explanation. It is easy to say "We should use the same standard for hostage rescue operations as infantry assaults" it is much more difficult to explain why. Obviously we all would like to see civilian casualties stay at a minimum but your scenario not only does nothing to ensure that, but it fails to recognize that these decisions to not exist in a vacuum. There are consequences for altering our strategy which you have repeatedly failed to address. It is because I suspect you do not have adequate answers.

  2. #182
    Guru

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    In a Blue State
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    4,732

    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    One cannot use fantasy to justify having their facts backwards. More consideration is made in drone strikes than ground operations. Your premise was false.
    What is the time frame to locate, approve and engage a drone strike?
    I have seen them done in less than 15 minutes, but I imagine for people on the kill list that would take a week.

    What is the time frame to locate, approve and engage a ground operation?
    Over a year for OBL. Ground operations take longer to plan and put together. What if it is a operation to get a bomb maker out of a village. That took about week.

    To say more consideration does not go into a ground operation, that is false.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

  3. #183
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Ground operations are multidimensional. Drone strikes are not. Ground operations can effectively remove innocents from the area.
    False. Air strikes are multidimensional. The greatest loss of civilian life has historically been during prolonged ground operations, not singular air strikes.

  4. #184
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,371

    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    What is the time frame to locate, approve and engage a drone strike?
    I have seen them done in less than 15 minutes, but I imagine for people on the kill list that would take a week.
    If there is no collateral damage possible, the target should be engaged virtually instantaneously. So what?

    Your premise that drone strikes do not make the same considerations for collateral damage is a false premise. No amount of OBL talk can change that.

    One might as well just go whole hog and claim that drone strikes are random.

  5. #185
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    What is the time frame to locate, approve and engage a drone strike?
    I have seen them done in less than 15 minutes, but I imagine for people on the kill list that would take a week.

    What is the time frame to locate, approve and engage a ground operation?
    Over a year for OBL. Ground operations take longer to plan and put together. What if it is a operation to get a bomb maker out of a village. That took about week.

    To say more consideration does not go into a ground operation, that is false.
    They take a variable amount of time but usually rely upon information relayed from our intelligence apparatus and judgement calls by those who sometimes have to make rapid decisions. It would be impossible for soldiers to reach these targets in time, let a lone safely, in most circumstances without a substantial combat operation which would likely endanger more civilians thus defeating your purpose.

    Again, OBL was the most extraordinary of extraordinary cases, perhaps the most extraordinary example in history. It is not a good idea to use that as a template.

  6. #186
    Guru

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    In a Blue State
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    4,732

    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Well there's two issues here:

    1- Why do you presume that civilian deaths would be less with troops on the ground?
    2- Why do you presume that your vision of morality must be the one everyone else should adhere to?
    Holy moly.

    MY POINT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT CAUSES LESS CIVILIAN DEATHS!!! The level of consideration I believe is important.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

  7. #187
    Guru

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    In a Blue State
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    4,732

    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    If there is no collateral damage possible, the target should be engaged virtually instantaneously. So what?

    Your premise that drone strikes do not take the same considerations for collateral damage is a false premise. No amount of OBL talk can change that.
    Why is it false? Because you say so?
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

  8. #188
    Sage
    OldWorldOrder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    10-12-15 @ 12:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,820

    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Holy moly.

    MY POINT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT CAUSES LESS CIVILIAN DEATHS!!! The level of consideration I believe is important.
    Er...It most certainly does.

    Now, to the second issue?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  9. #189
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,371

    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Why is it false? Because you say so? My experience lets me know you are wrong here.
    Reality contradicts your "experience".

  10. #190
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Why is it false? Because you say so? My experience lets me know you are wrong here.
    Your experience is not verifiable, it is singular, and thus not relevant to this debate.

Page 19 of 33 FirstFirst ... 9171819202129 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •