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Thread: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups [W:165]

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Clearly you didn't understand the point. We need apply the same consideration when making a drone strike as we would to putting troops on the ground to get the target.
    Why? You haven't defended this point adequately. They are two entirely different scenarios. We do not factor an air strike in the same way that we factor the deployment of troops. They are not related.

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The US makes more considerations for civilians in a drone strike than in putting troops on the ground.
    You think that we make more considerations about civilians, when we look at a computer screen of satellite shots and listen to a guy on the ground saying the bad guy in the building then the OBL raid? Why not just drone strike OBL? We needed visual confirmation and nothing does a better job of that then boots on the ground.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    This is a question of morality. If the question is what is the most cost effective lowest risk operation we can run, then it is drone strikes. But the topic of this thread is civilian deaths, and that the US is under reporting that number.
    You are more likely to have civilian deaths in repeated ground operations than the use of precision delivered small warheads. Moreover if we wanted to engage in these operations on a consistent basis you would need to deploy troops permanently to staging areas in Pakistan and Afghanistan and utilize CAS. Bin Laden's compound was isolated and had only 4 armed males in the entire facility. It is an outlier not the norm.

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Why? You haven't defended this point adequately. They are two entirely different scenarios. We do not factor an air strike in the same way that we factor the deployment of troops. They are not related.
    Because of the topic of this thread. Innocents on the ground.
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  5. #175
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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    You think that we make more considerations about civilians, when we look at a computer screen of satellite shots and listen to a guy on the ground saying the bad guy in the building then the OBL raid? Why not just drone strike OBL? We needed visual confirmation and nothing does a better job of that then boots on the ground.

    Drone strikes are often cancelled based on civilian considerations alone, ground operations not so much.

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Because of the topic of this thread. Innocents on the ground.
    That isn't an answer it is a restating of the debate. Why should we treat air strikes like ground operations they are completely different things. Explain exactly how this would work and why it should work that way.

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Drone strikes are often cancelled based on civilian considerations alone, ground operations not so much.
    Ground operations are multidimensional. Drone strikes are not. Ground operations can effectively remove innocents from the area.
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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Ground operations are multidimensional. Drone strikes are not. Ground operations can effectively remove innocents from the area.
    More civilian consideration is made in drone strikes than ground operations. Your premise is false.

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    That isn't an answer it is a restating of the debate. Why should we treat air strikes like ground operations they are completely different things. Explain exactly how this would work and why it should work that way.
    I can't make the same point to you repeatedly and have you not understand. Thanks for the fun.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    This is a question of morality. If the question is what is the most cost effective lowest risk operation we can run, then it is drone strikes. But the topic of this thread is civilian deaths, and that the US is under reporting that number.
    Well there's two issues here:

    1- Why do you presume that civilian deaths would be less with troops on the ground?
    2- Why do you presume that your vision of morality must be the one everyone else should adhere to?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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