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Thread: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups [W:165]

  1. #161
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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    The troop surges have a direct effect on the ability of enemies to operate. How is his confusing? I brought Iraq in as a counter point.
    A counter point to what though? This was a conversation about drone strikes. Please elaborate.

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    I don't believe we should fire off a missle from a unmanned drone if we are not willing to take the same amount of precision as we did when we put a team on the ground to get Osama Bin Ladin.
    Why must we subject ourselves to such defeating and punishing standards? The alternative to the course we have chartered is to surrender our aggressive pursuit of these enemies or to flood their regions with legions of American troops so we can adequately conduct the sorts of raids and operations you envision. This is foolish absolutism.

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    I understand that. It is the commitment to putting people on the ground to go after a valuable target. I feel it is too easy to fire a missile at a target and watch a video screen. Before they fire that missile they should be willing to put people on the ground for the target. Is it worth them the collateral damage if they wouldn't be willing to put people on the ground to do the mission?
    The only time a military operation is valid is when we have to put one of our soldiers in harms way? That is morally indefensible. We don't put soldiers at risk of death so that you can salve your own conscience. Using this standard we might as well do away with missiles and air power altogether.

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The only one waging war here is the United States. We started this "intervention", because our military-industrial complex demanded it. We are a warring nation whose government, economic expansion, and culture are all predicated upon conflict. If there's no conflict then the U.S. can't function in the world; our vast empire of bases in most countries and military treaties become redundant.

    The entire domino effect of Muslim countries growing to hate us is because we started killing them first, not the other way around. We have more wars than ever right now because of the U.S. Even if we go back to the pre-text for all this war on terrorism, we find that 9/11 was caused by people that we trained.

    If you want wars to end then you need to stop waging them. It's that simple. We weren't just targeted by terrorists in vacuo, we committed real atrocities against their societies over the course of decades, and we're STILL doing it now. The massive wars being fought right now were started by us. It's about our corporate interests, our natural resources, our socioeconomic way of life and colonization of other countries with our manifest destiny, and our ridiculous two-faced foreign policy. Don't delude yourself.

    The war on terror and all our campaigns in the Middle East are based on damned lies.
    1. This war had nothing, and has nothing to do with the military industrial complex. Nor is this in any way predicated on the need to expand our market access or whatever pseudo world systems/marxist nonsense you are trying to put across.

    2. What 'entire domino effect' what are you talking about? Nor were the 9/11 hijackers, or Osama Bin Laden, or their fighters trained, funded, or equipped by the United States.

    3. Obviously you can choose to not fire a gun and then the gun won't be fired. In the adult world we recognize that there is more to the story than the mechanics of pulling the trigger. Why you pull the trigger, who it is being aimed at, and what the consequences for doing so are what matter. The same with war.

    Try and claw your way out of the conspiratorial swamp of the internet, it'll do you some good.

  5. #165
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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Moderator's Warning:
    Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups [W:165]There is a ton of baiting going on in this thread. It needs to stop now.

    Stick to the topic, stop focusing on each other, and refrain from using baiting rhetoric or action will be taken

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    The only time a military operation is valid is when we have to put one of our soldiers in harms way? That is morally indefensible. We don't put soldiers at risk of death so that you can salve your own conscience. Using this standard we might as well do away with missiles and air power altogether.
    Clearly you didn't understand the point. We need apply the same consideration when making a drone strike as we would to putting troops on the ground to get the target.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    The two are inextricably linked. It is in our interests to prevent the spread of inter-state conflict and cement a liberal democratic world order.
    There's a linkage only in that one is subsumed by the other.

    Unless you want to prevent interstate conflict and cement a liberal democratic world order even if it didn't bolster American influences.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    There is human morality involved when attacking a target that may have innocents in the vicinity. That shouldn't get easier depending on the weapon of choice. To your analogy, morality doesn't come into play, just that technology is great and makes life better. I agree, technology is great and makes life better.
    Everyone's morality is different. Just ask Jerry Falwell. Nations should only fall back on whatever their leader's particular version of 'morality' is as a very last measure. Now, of course you think your morality is the best, but you understand others might not agree, and that doesn't make them wrong. Best to keep morality altogether out of the equation as much as possible.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  9. #169
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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    We need apply the same consideration when making a drone strike as we would to putting troops on the ground to get the target.
    The US makes more considerations for civilians in a drone strike than in putting troops on the ground.

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Everyone's morality is different. Just ask Jerry Falwell. Nations should only fall back on whatever their leader's particular version of 'morality' is as a very last measure. Now, of course you think your morality is the best, but you understand others might not agree, and that doesn't make them wrong. Best to keep morality altogether out of the equation as much as possible.
    This is a question of morality. If the question is what is the most cost effective lowest risk operation we can run, then it is drone strikes. But the topic of this thread is civilian deaths, and that the US is under reporting that number.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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