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Thread: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups [W:165]

  1. #151
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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    After two years in Iraq and 10 years in the military, I get collateral damage. I don't believe we should fire off a missle from a unmanned drone if we are not willing to take the same amount of precision as we did when we put a team on the ground to get Osama Bin Ladin.
    No one cares about such an ignorant terrorist apologist opinion. It's stupid.

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    No one cares about such an ignorant terrorist apologist opinion. It's stupid.
    You lack so much integrity it hurts.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

  3. #153
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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    You lack so much integrity it hurts.
    Too bad.

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    After two years in Iraq and 10 years in the military, I get collateral damage. I don't believe we should fire off a missle from a unmanned drone if we are not willing to take the same amount of precision as we did when we put a team on the ground to get Osama Bin Ladin.
    Why? Using drones is safer for the US, and very nearly as effective.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Why? Using drones is safer for the US, and very nearly as effective.
    I understand that. It is the commitment to putting people on the ground to go after a valuable target. I feel it is too easy to fire a missile at a target and watch a video screen. Before they fire that missile they should be willing to put people on the ground for the target. Is it worth them the collateral damage if they wouldn't be willing to put people on the ground to do the mission?
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

  6. #156
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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    I understand that. It is the commitment to putting people on the ground to go after a valuable target. I feel it is too easy to fire a missile at a target and watch a video screen. Before they fire that missile they should be willing to put people on the ground for the target. Is it worth them the collateral damage if they wouldn't be willing to put people on the ground to do the mission?
    People/states/organizations/whatever are going to go for what's "easy". It'd be harder and more fair for NATO forces to not use helicopters or up-armored Buffalos but they do, because it makes it easier. Do you think they shouldn't, just so they have to pause more before conducting an operation? You're basically proposing the same thing: hamstring military forces, in order to make it more difficult for them, so that their risk-reward analysis is skewed to being more conservative, conducting fewer missions.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    People/states/organizations/whatever are going to go for what's "easy". It'd be harder and more fair for NATO forces to not use helicopters or up-armored Buffalos but they do, because it makes it easier. Do you think they shouldn't, just so they have to pause more before conducting an operation? You're basically proposing the same thing: hamstring military forces, in order to make it more difficult for them, so that their risk-reward analysis is skewed to being more conservative, conducting fewer missions.
    Nothing against easy. The weight of the decision is different. That is my point.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Nothing against easy. The weight of the decision is different. That is my point.
    Easier things are easier to decide to do, of course. It's quite easy to have this conversation with you, but unless you live down the street from me, this same conversation would be virtually impossible 30 years ago, and we almost assuredly wouldn't have engaged it (*ring ring* "Hello, stranger, let's talk about current events").

    The only way to make the decision a more arduous one to make is to make the operation harder.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Easier things are easier to decide to do, of course. It's quite easy to have this conversation with you, but unless you live down the street from me, this same conversation would be virtually impossible 30 years ago, and we almost assuredly wouldn't have engaged it (*ring ring* "Hello, stranger, let's talk about current events").

    The only way to make the decision a more arduous one to make is to make the operation harder.
    There is human morality involved when attacking a target that may have innocents in the vicinity. That shouldn't get easier depending on the weapon of choice. To your analogy, morality doesn't come into play, just that technology is great and makes life better. I agree, technology is great and makes life better.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits - human rights groups say

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    In the 20th century, led by Wilsonianism, many Westerners started to believe that the only acceptable purpose of war would be to stop further war. That's the mindset that many people go into state-sponsored violence embracing.

    Other people see state-sponsored violence as what Clauswitz called "politics by other means": a way for nation-states to exert their influence and further their interests.

    If both sides don't recognize these fundamental differences in how other people see things, lots of parts of these kinds of discussions are entirely fruitless.
    The two are inextricably linked. It is in our interests to prevent the spread of inter-state conflict and cement a liberal democratic world order.

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