School shooting this morning . . .

MaggieD said:

61% of the serious violence occurred with no gun present. There's no nefarious reason I didn't mention it. The statistics at the link speak for themselves.

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I doubt your link. It would have to be analyzed to determine what is serious violence to begin with. I still suggest that if the consideration isn't serious violence which could include anything and it was violence against a person or persons then the most egregious cases would be with guns. In any case, the remaining 39% is till significant. It's probably about 38% that we Canadians don't have to worry about.



Funny you should mention that, because I had no idea what point you were trying to make in the post I responded to. Now, however, you've made your point very clear. You've somehow arrived at the conclusion that, because I have a gun in my home, I am interested in protecting personal property. I have absolutely no idea how you arrived at that conclusion.

I couldn't care less about my personal property. Besides their being "mere things," I have plenty of insurance for that eventuality. What I most certainly do value is my life and the lives of my loved ones.

But, as someone famous once said, "Let me make this perfectly clear." If an intruder breaks into my home in the middle of the night and I can access my gun before he "accesses me or mine," I won't be asking if he's armed. I won't be asking if his intention is just to rob my house. And I won't be asking him to freeze. I'll be blowing his ass away.

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Your rhetoric betrays your emotions. I know the exact same rhetoric and I know it's not original to you. And it also tells me that you want to make it more about your lust to kill another human being and that trumps your possible loss of personal belongings. I'm actually saying that that is a big part of the problem, both on the part of the homeowner and on the part of the burglar in your country.

And so, because you have used that sort of bloodlust rhetoric, I find that discussing the matter with you is now counter productive and rather disdainful in my opinion.

I would suggest that a Canadian's first and primary concern if he becomes the subject of a home burglary is to escape the experience with his/her life and the lives and wellbeing of his family members. Not something that is consistent with your obvious wishes to blow somebody's ass away. And in fact, I would suggest that most Canadians would never want to do such a thing because of the emotional scars that such actions obviously entail.

Fwiw, and it's not to encourage more discussion with you and your gun owner ilk, I have to wonder why any gun owner wouldn't recognize that killing another human being is highly undesirable. And also wonder at why a person would go to the trouble of even stating the wish on any discussion forum? Is it some sort of demonstration of macho bravado? Is it to be considered a warning to burglars? And if it's that then does the gun owner possibly think that expressing those sort of sentiments in a discussion such as this will actually protect them in some way or make an impression on the person they are talking to on the forum? As if I would be likely to be considering a burglary of your house?? In short, what makes them tick?? And would they eagerly follow through with their threats? I believe they would and do it gleefully, not understanding in the least the consequences that would come home to haunt them!

TurtleDude said:

as does violent crime. what do you think happens more

robbery, theft, rape or murder or harmful fires?

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Which isn't the question at hand. I can measure those things, all of them, but what has been asked of you is specifically those crimes that require more than seven rounds to address.

TurtleDude said:

there is no down side to someone licensed to carry a weapon from having 17 rounds in his gun but there is a down side to him being limited to 7 rounds even if one attack out of 100 would require more to solve the problem. You have changed your argument from there is NO NEED to there is not a statistically "significant" need

which is stupid. Remember if it SAVES JUST ONE INNOCENT LIFE

and since every police department has found that more than 7 is NEEDED, who are you to say otherwise? and don't give me the crap that police are more likely than other citizens to confront violent criminals-most cops do not.

YOUR failure is that you cannot show any reason why a person should be prohibited from having a 10-15-20 shot pistol if they have already been legally cleared to carry such a weapon in public

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I'm not sure if there is or isn't a down side. But you've been asked to show that more than seven rounds are needed, thus constituting a hardship. No dancing, just provide your support for your claim.

CRUE CAB said:

There is no stat that covers what is the optimum round count to have on hand. Even most police officers carry a loaded weapon with at least 2 mags in pouches.
Say in a Glock, that could be up to 51 rounds on tap if running a 9mm with 17 round mags. Plus one in the chamber gives 52.
Now why should an officer, be able to have 52 on hand and me or anyone else be limited?

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Again, police are different. So, if you don't know what is needed, how do you know you need more than seven?

Boo Radley said:

Again, police are different. So, if you don't know what is needed, how do you know you need more than seven?

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Different? How so? Their lives are worth more? More civilians are killed every year than officers. So I would say that Iam in more danger than a police officer.

CRUE CAB said:

Only from people like you. So I must be doing something right. Prove me wrong, if you can.

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What would you like me to waste my time embarrassing you about? Pick something even remotely interesting.

Snappo said:

What would you like me to waste my time embarrassing you about? Pick something even remotely interesting.

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Try, go ahead.

Boo Radley said:

Again, police are different. So, if you don't know what is needed, how do you know you need more than seven?

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He needs to kill more than 7 kids when he breaks into the elementary school he failed out of? That would be my guess. Or maybe he thinks the National Guard and Air National Guard cannot repel invasions as per USC Article 1? Or maybe he thinks his Glock is going to take over Washington and stop tyranny? Or maybe he thinks 52 rounds is equivalent to what the unorganized militia is supposed to have per the Militia Act of 1792?

Cops need things most Americans really do not need. If someone breaks into your house I cannot imagine getting off 52 rounds. Either the thug would be dead or the homeowner would be dead LONG before 52 rounds were fired from each person. And for target shooting, 52 rounds would heat the weapon so much that it would be way off from the original cold bore shot. Nobody hunts for food with handguns and who would need 52 rounds to kill a rabbit anyway? Honestly, the guy just says stuff to inflame folks and to be contrary. If you said the sky was blue he would tell you it was yellow and try and start a 100 page forum thread about it. The weapons feature act under Clinton was found Constitutional. The NFA that started the Class III registry was found Constitutional. The lockdown of the Class III registry signed into law by Reagan in 1986 was found Constitutional.

CRUE CAB said:

Try, go ahead.

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Pro tip Einstein, you need to pick a topic for me to laugh at you about.

Snappo said:

This will continue to happen until we put metal detectors and national guardsmen in the schools. But Americans view that as an infringement on their freedoms and would rather see little children die than try to deal with the problem in an intelligent and responsible manner.

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I will help you. You say people will see it as an infringement. How so?

Snappo said:

Pro tip Einstein, you need to pick a topic for me to laugh at you about.

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Laugh all you want, but try to answer the question.

Snappo said:

He needs to kill more than 7 kids when he breaks into the elementary school he failed out of? That would be my guess. Or maybe he thinks the National Guard and Air National Guard cannot repel invasions as per USC Article 1? Or maybe he thinks his Glock is going to take over Washington and stop tyranny? Or maybe he thinks 52 rounds is equivalent to what the unorganized militia is supposed to have per the Militia Act of 1792?

Cops need things most Americans really do not need. If someone breaks into your house I cannot imagine getting off 52 rounds. Either the thug would be dead or the homeowner would be dead LONG before 52 rounds were fired from each person. And for target shooting, 52 rounds would heat the weapon so much that it would be way off from the original cold bore shot. Nobody hunts for food with handguns and who would need 52 rounds to kill a rabbit anyway? Honestly, the guy just says stuff to inflame folks and to be contrary. If you said the sky was blue he would tell you it was yellow and try and start a 100 page forum thread about it. The weapons feature act under Clinton was found Constitutional. The NFA that started the Class III registry was found Constitutional. The lockdown of the Class III registry signed into law by Reagan in 1986 was found Constitutional.

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"Nobody hand gun hunts"? Really? Sure about that?Handgun Hunter Magazine - Your Handgun Hunting Headquarters
And shooting 50 rounds at target practice is just a good start of the day.
But keep trying to muddy the waters with Class III registries and what people should and shouldnt own based on your observations.

CRUE CAB said:

Laugh all you want, but try to answer the question.

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You haven't asked a question, genius. Do you know what a question is, or does someone have to send you a link to dictionary.com or something? I think you just troll this place for lack of anything else to do. Is that the case?

CRUE CAB said:

"Nobody hand gun hunts"? Really? Sure about that?Handgun Hunter Magazine - Your Handgun Hunting Headquarters

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List what animal you hunt with a hand gun, when you hunt it, what the laws are for hunting with a handgun for that animal in your state. LOL @ you once again. Tell me what you need 52 rounds to hunt. Because if you need 52 rounds to hunt something you are bad beyond bad. And you said you needed 52 rounds because the cop had 52 rounds. Is he hunting too? And I just checked your link to that pistol hunting magazine. The folks are hunting using revolvers with 5 or 6 round barrels. No 52 round barrels are seen in those photos.

Snappo said:

You haven't asked a question, genius. Do you know what a question is, or does someone have to send you a link to dictionary.com or something? I think you just troll this place for lack of anything else to do. Is that the case?

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I reiterated my question, even expanded on it.

Snappo said:

List what animal you hunt with a hand gun, when you hunt it, what the laws are for hunting with a handgun for that animal in your state. LOL @ you once again. Tell me what you need 52 rounds to hunt. Because if you need 52 rounds to hunt something you are bad beyond bad. And you said you needed 52 rounds because the cop had 52 rounds. Is he hunting too? Or is he protecting society from your psychotic a$$?

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Down here, wild boar and Key Deer when they are legal. Also Gator when tag season is open.
And in a societal breakdown, who are you to tell me what and how much ammo and or weapons I can keep to defend home and life.

Snappo said:

List what animal you hunt with a hand gun, when you hunt it, what the laws are for hunting with a handgun for that animal in your state. LOL @ you once again. Tell me what you need 52 rounds to hunt. Because if you need 52 rounds to hunt something you are bad beyond bad. And you said you needed 52 rounds because the cop had 52 rounds. Is he hunting too? And I just checked your link to that pistol hunting magazine. The folks are hunting using revolvers with 5 or 6 round barrels. No 52 round barrels are seen in those photos.

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Oh and he aint protecting me from anything. Their job is to react to what happens to you. Not stop it.

CRUE CAB said:

Down here, wild boar and Key Deer when they are legal. Also Gator when tag season is open.
And in a societal breakdown, who are you to tell me what and how much ammo and or weapons I can keep to defend home and life.

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1. What was your alleged question that you never asked but think you did?

2. I hunt wild boar and deer. With a rifle, not a semi-automatic pistol. I would say any sane hunter would tell you the same. For deer I use a Remington XHR in 30-06, and for wild boar I use my Remington 770 in 300 winmag. I have yet to EVER go on a boar hunt with someone where they used a pistol to hunt.

3. I am not the one saying what you can have, as I certainly have 10x to 100x as many firearms and ammo as you (I am a firearms dealer) and am definitely upset that laws are being passed to restrict detach magazine capacity. But the laws appear to be constitutional and will be upheld no doubt.

4. What wild boar have you ever killed that took more than the 6 rounds of a revolver or the 8 rounds of a 1911? What time did it take you 52 rounds to drop a wild boar?

CRUE CAB said:

Oh and he aint protecting me from anything. Their job is to react to what happens to you. Not stop it.

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You don't think police prevent crime by their presence? Really? And you don't think cops show up at the scene of crimes and stop the crimes from continuing? Really?

Snappo said:

You don't think police prevent crime by their presence? Really? And you don't think cops show up at the scene of crimes and stop the crimes from continuing? Really?

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Pin a badge on strap up for a few years then tell me how it works. I already have.

CRUE CAB said:

And in a societal breakdown, who are you to tell me what and how much ammo and or weapons I can keep to defend home and life.

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Are you saying you are buying high capacity magazines for an expected societal breakdown that is such that there will be no National Guard, no Police, and no Air National Guard?

Snappo said:

1. What was your alleged question that you never asked but think you did?

2. I hunt wild boar and deer. With a rifle, not a semi-automatic pistol. I would say any sane hunter would tell you the same. For deer I use a Remington XHR in 30-06, and for wild boar I use my Remington 770 in 300 winmag. I have yet to EVER go on a boar hunt with someone where they used a pistol to hunt.

3. I am not the one saying what you can have, as I certainly have 10x to 100x as many firearms and ammo as you (I am a firearms dealer) and am definitely upset that laws are being passed to restrict detach magazine capacity. But the laws appear to be constitutional and will be upheld no doubt.

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Well we are plenty sane and I have used everything from a .45acp to a .454 Casull on boar. Sure you can use a rifle. Its a matter of personal preference and what land you are on. And clearly you have no idea what a Key Deer is. Its not much bigger than a dog. I dont think they can be hunted anylonger in most parts of Florida though.
And your little one upsmanship of how many guns and or ammo you have means little to me if you are going to question what legal means we have hunted and what legal means I use to protect and defend my home and family.
I know dealers that sell to current, former military and police only because even though they are "dealers". The feel the general public has no biz owning guns.

CRUE CAB said:

Pin a badge on strap up for a few years then tell me how it works. I already have.

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Now you are saying you are a cop and you feel civilians needs high capacity magazines?

Snappo said:

Are you saying you are buying high capacity magazines for an expected societal breakdown that is such that there will be no National Guard, no Police, and no Air National Guard?

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I am not waiting around for the G to come save me.