• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

School shooting this morning . . .

TurtleDude said:
only when criminals think that dogs will alert an armed homeowner. dogs are incredibly easy to kill by armed people. knives, clubs, guns. ASP Batons are particularly nasty against all but the best trained attack dogs. A Randall Model One is absolutely brutal-I saw a guy attacked by a doper's big Dobie and he had a Randall. He literally filleted the dog in under three seconds
Click to expand...

Yes, a dog is a great warning system, and that's about it.
 
Dogs can also be a valuable asset to home owners. Any dog that bark at strangers brings unwanted attention to a thief. Larger dogs can even discourage an intruder from entering your yard or home.

LCG Police Department-Home Burglary Information

A security dog is an incredible asset to have in a school. It not only acts as a deterrent for would-be shooters, but also, if needed to be called into action, is right there on the premises to neutralize that threat.


Security dogs are unlike any other measure in that it is the one tool that cannot be taken from you and used against you. Pepper spray, stun guns, batons, firearms, weapons etc. can all be taken from you and then used against you. They can be stolen or lost, they can malfunction, and they can cause more problems if they are in incompetent hands that don’t have adequate experience using them. A security dog however, will not have any of these issues.
K-9s vs Guns: A Special Operations Member Weighs In On Successful History of Security Dogs And Their Use In Schools | Intel | Command Posts
 
ChrisL said:
Yes, a dog is a great warning system, and that's about it.
Click to expand...

Nope. The one invader we had while we were gone de-robbed the young man and held him until we got home. He was in no mood to be a threat.
 
TurtleDude said:
oh the hysteria has gone viral-carrying the same 17 shot GLOCK pistol that is issued to the DEA is now an ARSENAL. I have shown you that experts have determined what is the best weapon for somewhat trained cops to use in self defense

you cannot claim that every cop is going to face MORE danger than EVERY other CIVILIAN

dogs are great if someone is worried you have a gun and have been alerted by the dog. If I know you don't I will walk right through that dog and you are gonna be toast if I am some badass looking to do you. A dog is worthless against someone with a knife or a gun willing to kill
Click to expand...

Stop the emotionalism and just answer the question.
 
Boo Radley said:
Nope. The one invader we had while we were gone de-robbed the young man and held him until we got home. He was in no mood to be a threat.
Click to expand...

That's luck. If he had a gun, he would have just shot and killed the dog.
 
TurtleDude said:
as opposed to gun hating liberals telling her she doesn't need the same gun a cop has determined is the best for self defense?
Click to expand...

And there is nothing inbetween?
 
Boo Radley said:
Dogs can also be a valuable asset to home owners. Any dog that bark at strangers brings unwanted attention to a thief. Larger dogs can even discourage an intruder from entering your yard or home.

LCG Police Department-Home Burglary Information

A security dog is an incredible asset to have in a school. It not only acts as a deterrent for would-be shooters, but also, if needed to be called into action, is right there on the premises to neutralize that threat.


Security dogs are unlike any other measure in that it is the one tool that cannot be taken from you and used against you. Pepper spray, stun guns, batons, firearms, weapons etc. can all be taken from you and then used against you. They can be stolen or lost, they can malfunction, and they can cause more problems if they are in incompetent hands that don’t have adequate experience using them. A security dog however, will not have any of these issues.
K-9s vs Guns: A Special Operations Member Weighs In On Successful History of Security Dogs And Their Use In Schools | Intel | Command Posts
Click to expand...

Now that's something most people could get behind. If they could train dogs to attack with evasive maneuvers, they might have a chance of getting to a shooter . . . without that, and with an automatic weapon, we'd just be sending it to its death.

An armed LEO and his dog might be a feasible answer to security issues even as they exist now in Chicago schools, as an example. Not even talking about shootings.
 
TurtleDude said:
only when criminals think that dogs will alert an armed homeowner. dogs are incredibly easy to kill by armed people. knives, clubs, guns. ASP Batons are particularly nasty against all but the best trained attack dogs. A Randall Model One is absolutely brutal-I saw a guy attacked by a doper's big Dobie and he had a Randall. He literally filleted the dog in under three seconds
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter your speculation, the dog alone deters.
 
Boo Radley said:
Dogs can also be a valuable asset to home owners. Any dog that bark at strangers brings unwanted attention to a thief. Larger dogs can even discourage an intruder from entering your yard or home.

LCG Police Department-Home Burglary Information

A security dog is an incredible asset to have in a school. It not only acts as a deterrent for would-be shooters, but also, if needed to be called into action, is right there on the premises to neutralize that threat.


Security dogs are unlike any other measure in that it is the one tool that cannot be taken from you and used against you. Pepper spray, stun guns, batons, firearms, weapons etc. can all be taken from you and then used against you. They can be stolen or lost, they can malfunction, and they can cause more problems if they are in incompetent hands that don’t have adequate experience using them. A security dog however, will not have any of these issues.
K-9s vs Guns: A Special Operations Member Weighs In On Successful History of Security Dogs And Their Use In Schools | Intel | Command Posts
Click to expand...

This is all true, but a dog is ultimately just as vulnerable as a human being when the perpetrator is armed.
 
Read Massad Ayoob's THE TRUTH ABOUT SELF PROTECTION

he is one of the leading authorities on this issue

while this wikipedia article is a bit of an advertisement it is true

I know-I have been a guest instructor-lecturer at his LFI courses held in the SW Ohio area


Massad Ayoob - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
TurtleDude said:
Dogs are great if someone is worried you have a gun and have been alerted by the dog. If I know you don't I will walk right through that dog and you are gonna be toast if I am some badass looking to do you. A dog is worthless against someone with a knife or a gun willing to kill
Click to expand...

A trained dog is something else again, though. A home watchdog, I agree with you. Once they've heard the dog bark (mine sounds like Barry White and weighs 125#) and decide they're coming in anyway? They're armed and ready to neutralize your dog. Actually, most of the time when we're gone, we keep Josh locked in a bedroom figuring that might save his life. Just one of those i's I tend to dot. ;)

I remember a soldier who fought in Korea telling me that they liked the big dogs . . . they'd charge right at you and it was easy to kill them. The little ankle biters? Notsomuch.

But if I had a trained guard dog in my home who didn't bother to bark?? Then, Turtle, I think he just might get his groove on.
 
MaggieD said:
Now that's something most people could get behind. If they could train dogs to attack with evasive maneuvers, they might have a chance of getting to a shooter . . . without that, and with an automatic weapon, we'd just be sending it to its death.

An armed LEO and his dog might be a feasible answer to security issues even as they exist now in Chicago schools, as an example. Not even talking about shootings.
Click to expand...

Dogs rather well trained to handle armed intruders. I wouldn't under estimate them.
 
Boo Radley said:
I doubt it. My shepherds might have taken his arm off.
Click to expand...

the goal is to have as many options as possible. we live in what is now suburbia developed from farmland and we still have a farm and our home sits in the middle of a 26 acre lot with cornfields on one side, horsefields on another and the 5 acre backyards of three other homes (one is horse field the other two is scrub brush and briars) on the other sides. our dogs bark the minute someone drives up the driveway and get within 50-80 yards of the house. we have reinforced doors and heavy gun safes in areas that we are likely to have to use them as cover in any sort of break in

DOGS ARE A GREAT EARLY WARNING SYSTEM

so you can get a GUN and SHOOT someone who would break in
 
MaggieD said:
A trained dog is something else again, though. A home watchdog, I agree with you. Once they've heard the dog bark (mine sounds like Barry White and weighs 125#) and decide they're coming in anyway? They're armed and ready to neutralize your dog. Actually, most of the time when we're gone, we keep Josh locked in a bedroom figuring that might save his life. Just one of those i's I tend to dot. ;)

I remember a soldier who fought in Korea telling me that they liked the big dogs . . . they'd charge right at you and it was easy to kill them. The little ankle biters? Notsomuch.

But if I had a trained guard dog in my home who didn't bother to bark?? Then, Turtle, I think he just might get his groove on.
Click to expand...

The surprise attack does sound good in theory, but if it doesn't work and they kill your dog? Then what?
 
Boo Radley said:
Dogs rather well trained to handle armed intruders. I wouldn't under estimate them.
Click to expand...

how many people have such dogs. I bet less than one in 250 dog owners. I am up on this top, my sister in law raises dogs for police departments and is a trainer. her dogs sell for several thousand dollars. After the cops get done with final training-they cost more than a decent used car.
 
ChrisL said:
Your dogs are not faster than a bullet.
Click to expand...

Of course not. Faster than human reaction. And not nearly as nervous. It's actually difficult to shoot under pressure.
 
How would an attack dog be able to handle MORE than one intruder? If there are 4 or 5 home invaders (which is the case a lot of times), then your dog is not going to be very effective no matter what.
 
Boo Radley said:
Of course not. Faster than human reaction. And not nearly as nervous. It's actually difficult to shoot under pressure.
Click to expand...

Nervous? That depends entirely upon who you are dealing with.
 
MaggieD said:
A trained dog is something else again, though. A home watchdog, I agree with you. Once they've heard the dog bark (mine sounds like Barry White and weighs 125#) and decide they're coming in anyway? They're armed and ready to neutralize your dog. Actually, most of the time when we're gone, we keep Josh locked in a bedroom figuring that might save his life. Just one of those i's I tend to dot. ;)

I remember a soldier who fought in Korea telling me that they liked the big dogs . . . they'd charge right at you and it was easy to kill them. The little ankle biters? Notsomuch.

But if I had a trained guard dog in my home who didn't bother to bark?? Then, Turtle, I think he just might get his groove on.
Click to expand...

Dopers often cut the vocal cords of their attack dogs so you don't hear them coming There is a tactic to deal with that though. you bring a K9 unit and it alerts you to the attack dogs. Then you shoot them with a suppressed 22 pistol. the K9 guys I know often carry such things
 
TurtleDude said:
the goal is to have as many options as possible. we live in what is now suburbia developed from farmland and we still have a farm and our home sits in the middle of a 26 acre lot with cornfields on one side, horsefields on another and the 5 acre backyards of three other homes (one is horse field the other two is scrub brush and briars) on the other sides. our dogs bark the minute someone drives up the driveway and get within 50-80 yards of the house. we have reinforced doors and heavy gun safes in areas that we are likely to have to use them as cover in any sort of break in

DOGS ARE A GREAT EARLY WARNING SYSTEM

so you can get a GUN and SHOOT someone who would break in
Click to expand...

I don't disagree. But with the dog, you likely won't need the second option, and if do, a bullet or two would be enough.

Like I said, I've lived 55 years in some of the roughest areas in the country with no need to be armed. None. So I dint know what country you live in or why you think you so much overkill. But self defense shouldn't take more than seven rounds.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom