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Thread: School shooting this morning . . .

  1. #621
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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappo View Post
    I would go with your bulls*t story about how English cannot own arms and have no right to. English common law, the English Bill of Rights, and gun laws in England all say you are full of it. And 4,060,000 guns that are owned by private citizens in England all say their gun is proof positive you have no clue what in the world you are talking about.
    Sorry, but when you brought up UK licensing laws and restrictions on firearms you destroyed your own argument.

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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Sorry, this might be amongst the dumbest ideas suggested.... Its extremely expensive and suggests the militarization of our schools. Silliness. Right up there with making sure the math are art teachers are packin'......

    I'm not sure why any of us are wasting time talking about this. Its long been established the 50-70 school children deaths each year are acceptable collateral casualties in our quest to protect absolute gun rights.....

    DP should be used to discuss real issues....we have already, as a society, ok'd school shootings....
    that's a moronic claim. the dead school children appear to be an acceptable cost for you lefties to impose gun free zones on us



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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Chicago schools have metal detectors and coppers in the halls. It's not unprecedented.
    True. Then again, there was a cop on duty at Columbine when the shooting started. It didn't make a difference; nor would metal detectors make a difference if you were ready to shoot when you walked in the place. The poster was suggesting more than a cop, but a national guardsmen, presumably armed with something more powerful than a .44. Even a cop on duty, he would cost a single school (or taxpayers) something on the order of $50-75 per year per school. If that average school district has 15 schools, this is $1M per district.... not exactly chump change for most school districts that are cutting libraries, arts programs and increasing class sizes.

    Perhaps we could just think of school shootings as "Class Size Reduction Events"


    (Note: I do not mean these things... I am merely trying to illustrate with absurdity just how callous we, as a society, have become on this issue)
    Last edited by upsideguy; 10-26-13 at 12:04 AM.

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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    True. Then again, there was a cop on duty at Columbine when the shooting started. It didn't make a difference; nor would metal detectors make a difference if you were ready to shoot when you walked in the place. The poster was suggesting more than a cop, but a national guardsmen, presumably armed with something more powerful than a .44.
    1) several lies

    a) the cop most likely decreased the number of casualties

    b) one incident does not prove an armed officer is worthless any more than a patient who dies of a disease even though a protocol that saves 95% of the patients proves the therapy worthless

    c) anything that makes a target a harder challenge normally will save lives



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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    True. Then again, there was a cop on duty at Columbine when the shooting started. It didn't make a difference; nor would metal detectors make a difference if you were ready to shoot when you walked in the place. The poster was suggesting more than a cop, but a national guardsmen, presumably armed with something more powerful than a .44. Even a cop on duty, he would cost a single school (or taxpayers) something on the order of $50-75 per year per school. If that average school district has 15 schools, this is $1M per district.... not exactly chump change for most school districts that are cutting libraries, arts programs and increasing class sizes.

    Perhaps we could just think of school shootings as "Class Size Reduction Events"


    (Note: I do not mean these things... I am merely trying to illustrate with absurdity just how callous we, as a society, have become on this issue)
    I thought that is what abortion clinics were for!

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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    1) several lies

    a) the cop most likely decreased the number of casualties

    b) one incident does not prove an armed officer is worthless any more than a patient who dies of a disease even though a protocol that saves 95% of the patients proves the therapy worthless

    c) anything that makes a target a harder challenge normally will save lives
    The only lies are from you are suggesting you know, when you don't.

    Columbine is a big school. One cop did not make much of a difference.... I agree that an example of one is not a prima facie argument.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/there...umbine-2012-12

    Just as absurd as one example not being the whole argument, the notion of "anything that makes the target a harder challenge...." is also weak, as with all solutions, there has to be a cost benefit. A school district spending $1M to make something nominally harder is not cost effective and therefore not likely a solution....

    You should just admit that 50-75 student deaths per year is an acceptable level of collateral damage for your unfettered gun rights....
    Last edited by upsideguy; 10-26-13 at 12:14 AM.

  7. #627
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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    I thought that is what abortion clinics were for!
    ....

    well, some get through and classes are too large...

  8. #628
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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    The only lies are from you are suggesting you know, when you don't.

    Columbine is a big school. One cop did not make much of a difference.... I agree that an example of one is not a prima facie argument.

    Just as absurd as one example not being the whole argument, the notion of "anything that makes the target a harder challenge...." is also weak, as with all solutions, there has to be a cost benefit. A school district spending $1M to make something nominally harder is not cost effective and therefore not likely a solution....

    You should just admit that 50-75 student deaths per you is an acceptable collateral damage for your gun rights....
    so you attended the national symposium on active shooter strategies that featured experts in the field and a complete analysis of why the current response to active shooters was changed due to Columbine?

    you see at Columbine the traditional response was used-wait until the authorities had gathered sufficient forces to charge into the killing zone. Of course by then the scumbags had killed a bunch of people

    as a result, the training is for the first armed responder to challenge the AS who is then more likely than not to fold up and either kill himself or be killed by the first responder

    the 9-11 scenario also changed hijack scenarios. Before passengers were told not to resist and let HRTs or negotiators handle things That sort of thinking is why the WTC was destroyed and why the scumbags who took over the plane that was crashed into the countryside failed to kill even more people.

    si I suspect I know far more about this subject than you do and people like you love hearing about school shootings because you can use the deaths of kids to whine about those evil NRA members you love to blame when the blame is more appropriate for the anti gun ninnies who create gun free zones



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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    The 12 year old shooter's name was Jose Reyes. The Sparks police still refuse to state the name, but the Sparks City Attorney accidentally said the name when acknowledging to a local newspaper that Univision had already released the name. The police do state that the parents are cooperating with the "investigation." Who knows what that means. The names and/or nationalities of the two wounded 12 year olds have not been released. No motive released.

    Very frustrating seeming veil of secrecy.

  10. #630
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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that's a moronic claim. the dead school children appear to be an acceptable cost for you lefties to impose gun free zones on us
    Actually, what is moronic is your inability to articulate what you feel.... I believer it is true that this is an acceptable collateral damage to maintain your unfettered gun rights. If not, then would you accept some type restriction IF you had reason to believe that it would reduce these kind of events.

    Let's put this to the test and operate with the hypothetical. Put aside for one minute whether or not this is realistic..... and consider that proposition that there is a restriction or regulation on gun ownership that would lead to a significant reduction of school/public shootings. If so, would you endorse this? If you can answer "yes" then I back off; if you can not answer "yes" to this, which I bet you can not, then my original assertion that these are acceptable collateral damages to you stands.

    So, I ask you, "if you knew, with reasonable certainty, that a particular gun restriction or regulation would lead to a reduction of public shootings, would you be in favor or said regulation/restriction?"
    Last edited by upsideguy; 10-26-13 at 12:30 AM.

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