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Thread: School shooting this morning . . .

  1. #321
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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Hardly. If there was no push form the populace, there would be no movement. That's how it works. If you take the time to look, you would see a majority of urban folk want gun laws and a majority of rural people don't, for the most part.
    Have any sort of link to back that up or just another lie.

  2. #322
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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    This is a lot of assumption and hysteria. The major assumption is that everything else except government remains constant so that direct comparison can be made. That is of course untrue. What makes a country first or third is a build up of many dynamics and not based solely on the government. It assumes that the various successful countries of Europe all succeeded similarly and based predominately on their government. You further imply that because some weak government countries are third world countries, then all small and constrained government can only produce third world countries. This is of course untrue, as many of the now established first and second world countries came about from environments that initially had a more constrained government. Additionally, it does not say that a constrained government is no government or an ineffective government as may be found in the third world states. Your entire argument is just one big logic fail.

    So thus isn't hard data, it's assumption and supposition.
    You're tap-dancing around the issue. Look again at the data and ask yourself, what do ALL first-world democracies have in common? They all share certain characteristics...so what are those characteristics? I pointed them out, if you don't remember.

    Likewise, look at all the nations that have weak government, low effective taxes, and little or no regulation - what do they all have in common?

    Guy, you're always going to be able to find this or that small 'dynamic'...but that's focusing on one or two trees and thinking they represent the whole forest. Step back and take the WIDE view, see the whole forest...

    ...and ask yourself why it is that conservative dogma cannot explain why all first-world nations have the exact kind of governmental and economic systems that should run their respective economies to ruin...yet all the nations which have the kind of governmental and economic systems that conservatives say would lead a nation to economic prosperity...these nations are all third-world nations.

    And if you can't explain it, don't feel bad - I've asked conservatives this question a hundred times or more, and every single time, they flail around trying to point out this or that small 'dynamic', or they just toss out insults.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  3. #323
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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You want to keep playing the silly implication game, be my guest. You created the stupid...you might as well continue to dwell in it.

    And thanks for proving the point. You care not a damn about the 'victims'...but boy, dont you love your pet 'cause'.
    Why, you MUST be absolutely right in everything, 'cause obviously gun-rights supporters, being the Real Red-Blooded Americans they are, are the ONLY people in America who really care for other people! They KNOW that if one helps out his fellow man, he's only hurting his fellow man by making it too easy on him...so they show their love for their fellow man (and woman and child) by NOT helping them - "tough love", y'know. They KNOW that liberals like myself, when we're out there helping the tired, the poor, the tempest-tossed, we're only trying to destroy conservatives and take away their guns!

    That's why Real Red-Blooded Gun-Owning Americans want to slash funding for Head Start, for food stamps, for rape kits, for people who lost their jobs (it's always their fault and of course could NEVER be the fault of the company responding to a crappy economy)...these are all just wastes of time and taxpayer dollars - it's MUCH better to take ALL the money away from social programs and give it to the Defense Department, because, you know, liberals and terrorists!
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  4. #324
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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Why, you MUST be absolutely right in everything, 'cause obviously gun-rights supporters, being the Real Red-Blooded Americans they are, are the ONLY people in America who really care for other people! They KNOW that if one helps out his fellow man, he's only hurting his fellow man by making it too easy on him...so they show their love for their fellow man (and woman and child) by NOT helping them - "tough love", y'know. They KNOW that liberals like myself, when we're out there helping the tired, the poor, the tempest-tossed, we're only trying to destroy conservatives and take away their guns!

    That's why Real Red-Blooded Gun-Owning Americans want to slash funding for Head Start, for food stamps, for rape kits, for people who lost their jobs (it's always their fault and of course could NEVER be the fault of the company responding to a crappy economy)...these are all just wastes of time and taxpayer dollars - it's MUCH better to take ALL the money away from social programs and give it to the Defense Department, because, you know, liberals and terrorists!
    You know...if you actually pick a track for your arguments you might look just a tiny bit less silly. Maybe. MAYbe....

  5. #325
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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Utility Man View Post
    Or maybe like this:



    No not surprised at all that you started this thread with:

    Really??? You equate my "Where are the Congressional hearings on this" and "Here.we.go.again" with THIS???

    Quote Originally Posted by Utility Man View Post


    REALLY?????

  6. #326
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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Prove it. Cops are a reactionary force at best. Them being in the right place at the right time is next to nil.


    Policing can be a dangerous job and therefore not for everyone. Some of the danger is physical; there is an ever-present possibility of attack or of being asked to perform physically taxing tasks. Another kind of danger, though, is psychological and can come, as mentioned, from thoughts of the possibility of danger or, more likely, from the stresses of being exposed to negative events in the lives of others.

    When asked about stress, officers most frequently mention the police organization itself as a stressor. The need to make decisions on the streets or highways, but then to have those decisions so frequently questioned by the public, the media, and senior officers within the department, leads many officers to feel they are constantly under scrutiny for even the most routine activities.

    Becoming a Police Officer: Risks | Education.com

    Today’s law enforcement officers face a multitude of dangers in their everyday duties that rival the threat of getting shot. For example:


    Foot pursuits
    Vehicle pursuits
    Responding code 3 (lights and siren)
    Making an arrest
    Traffic control
    Heat stroke
    Stress
    Duty equipment
    Biohazard exposure/sun exposure

    Officers are exposed to these dangers on a daily basis.

    The real dangers of police work are not what you think - Lodinews.com: Behind The Badge

    "There are more people out there who are bad guys and could care less about killing you," he said. "I don't think the public has a clue as to what law enforcement goes through every day -- the stress they are under or all the bad things they see."

    A decrease in law enforcement officers killed doesn't mean the job is getting that much safer or criminals have become less violent toward police. What it may suggest, though, is that law enforcement officers have become smarter.

    Manning, the criminal justice professor, cites three major factors in helping keep more officers alive: 1) increased use and proven effectiveness of bulletproof vests; 2) improved education and procedures for hostage and other potentially perilous situations; and 3) the advent and rise of specialized units to deal with the bigger crises.

    Dangers real, but deaths increasingly rare for police officers - CNN.com

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #327
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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Have any sort of link to back that up or just another lie.
    Support for gun control is geographically and racially concentrated in ways that sap the movement of political power. And that disparity of opinion is linked to another reality: there is no national consensus on guns because different bits of America experience such wildly differing rates of harm from guns.

    A valuable and sobering piece of research by the Washington Post on March 24th put some hard numbers behind the reality that everyone in the gun debate knows but finds hard to discuss. Rural and urban Americans, as well as blacks and whites, might as well live in different countries when it comes to their exposure to gun violence.

    Gun control: America's gun divide | The Economist

    Urbanicity

    There is an inverse relationship between gun ownership and urbanicity, with the majority of guns owned by those
    living in rural areas. These findings are consistent with trends since the 1970s.

    (snip)

    The majority of respondents in urban and suburban areas reported that gun control was more important than
    protecting the right to own guns. In rural areas, the majority favored protecting the right to own guns over gun
    control. These figures are consistent

    https://blogs.commons.georgetown.edu...ted-States.pdf

    Rural America is as integral to the national character as the nation’s cities are. But no more so. Manchin and Toomey, both from gun-friendly states, deserve praise for striking a compromise between urban and rural values that would protect the public from criminals and madmen while honoring the traditions and rights of gun owners. The Senate’s rejection of that compromise bodes well for no one.

    Rural America vs. Sensible Gun Control - Bloomberg

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #328
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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    2 dead? Not that bad. Investigate, punish the offender, done and done.

    Not that bad, shows how desensitized the public is becoming to these shootings.

    I hope it is trending now, like serial killers did in the 80's and it will become less prevelant.

    More mental healthcare, please

  9. #329
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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post


    Policing can be a dangerous job and therefore not for everyone. Some of the danger is physical; there is an ever-present possibility of attack or of being asked to perform physically taxing tasks. Another kind of danger, though, is psychological and can come, as mentioned, from thoughts of the possibility of danger or, more likely, from the stresses of being exposed to negative events in the lives of others.

    When asked about stress, officers most frequently mention the police organization itself as a stressor. The need to make decisions on the streets or highways, but then to have those decisions so frequently questioned by the public, the media, and senior officers within the department, leads many officers to feel they are constantly under scrutiny for even the most routine activities.

    Becoming a Police Officer: Risks | Education.com

    Today’s law enforcement officers face a multitude of dangers in their everyday duties that rival the threat of getting shot. For example:


    Foot pursuits
    Vehicle pursuits
    Responding code 3 (lights and siren)
    Making an arrest
    Traffic control
    Heat stroke
    Stress
    Duty equipment
    Biohazard exposure/sun exposure

    Officers are exposed to these dangers on a daily basis.

    The real dangers of police work are not what you think - Lodinews.com: Behind The Badge

    "There are more people out there who are bad guys and could care less about killing you," he said. "I don't think the public has a clue as to what law enforcement goes through every day -- the stress they are under or all the bad things they see."

    A decrease in law enforcement officers killed doesn't mean the job is getting that much safer or criminals have become less violent toward police. What it may suggest, though, is that law enforcement officers have become smarter.

    Manning, the criminal justice professor, cites three major factors in helping keep more officers alive: 1) increased use and proven effectiveness of bulletproof vests; 2) improved education and procedures for hostage and other potentially perilous situations; and 3) the advent and rise of specialized units to deal with the bigger crises.

    Dangers real, but deaths increasingly rare for police officers - CNN.com
    Most Dangerous Jobs in America
    Rank based on deaths per 100,000 workers

    1. Fishermen/Fishing Industry - 42 fatal injuries 2011
    2. Logging Workers - 65 fatal injuries
    3. Aircraft Pilots & Flight Engineers - 71 fatal injuries
    4. Refuse Collection & Recycling - 30 fatal injuries
    5. Roofers - 60 fatal injuries
    6. Iron Workes - 18 fatal injuries
    7. Farmers/Ranchers - 268 fatal injuries
    8. Driver/Salesworkers & Truck Drivers - 774 fatal injuries
    9. Taxi Drivers - 64 fatal injuries
    10. Electrical Power Line Installer/Repairers - 26 fatal injuries
    11. Police - 130 fatal injuries
    12. Grounds Maintenance Workers - 183 fatal injuries
    13. Construction Laborers - 191 fatal injuries
    14. Coal Mining - 17 fatal injuries
    15. Construction Equipment Operators - 47 fatal injuries
    16. Athletics - 23 fatal injuries


    Coppers are surprisingly low on the list.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/most-...ated-workers-1

  10. #330
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    Re: School shooting this morning . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Most Dangerous Jobs in America
    Rank based on deaths per 100,000 workers

    1. Fishermen/Fishing Industry - 42 fatal injuries 2011
    2. Logging Workers - 65 fatal injuries
    3. Aircraft Pilots & Flight Engineers - 71 fatal injuries
    4. Refuse Collection & Recycling - 30 fatal injuries
    5. Roofers - 60 fatal injuries
    6. Iron Workes - 18 fatal injuries
    7. Farmers/Ranchers - 268 fatal injuries
    8. Driver/Salesworkers & Truck Drivers - 774 fatal injuries
    9. Taxi Drivers - 64 fatal injuries
    10. Electrical Power Line Installer/Repairers - 26 fatal injuries
    11. Police - 130 fatal injuries
    12. Grounds Maintenance Workers - 183 fatal injuries
    13. Construction Laborers - 191 fatal injuries
    14. Coal Mining - 17 fatal injuries
    15. Construction Equipment Operators - 47 fatal injuries
    16. Athletics - 23 fatal injuries


    Coppers are surprisingly low on the list.

    Most Dangerous Jobs In America - Business Insider
    Yep. And not anything guns would help them with. not the same for police officers.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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