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Thread: US debt jumps a record $328 Billion

  1. #21
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    Re: US debt jumps a record $328 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    Not according to the left who believe that government debt doesn't matter. For those on the right who don't, we have been broke for a long time. We just haven't gotten the eviction notice yet.
    If we are so broke, why are things continuing to work? Is it because it is going to break? How long do we speculate that it is going to break before it becomes a self-proclaimed prophecy?

    In my mind, "believe" is the wrong word. I know the national deficit doesn't matter. I suggest you read into how the banking sector works and the flow of money. Once you have a preliminary picture of how everything cycles through the economy, you will see that The Fed can purchase Treasury bonds indefinitely, while the Treasury can issue more bonds and print money indefinitely. Printing money is a requirement for a growing economy and is the prime reason to go to a fiat currency. You would also learn that how our fiat system works is inflationary in nature in a multitude of ways, and it has to be. By manipulating interest rates, you can manipulate the rate of money being removed from the economy.

    I will say it again, the national deficit doesn't matter. The only reason why the Treasury doesn't print it's debt off is The Fed can potentially acquire more wealth by keeping their treasury bonds. The increase stream of interest from the Treasury would cease if all of that debt were to be paid off. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if The Fed can use all of those treasury bonds as an asset, and justify a loan backed by all of those bonds. Then by using that loan, The Fed can invest in whatever it wants to to accrue more wealth.

    What should have you worried, is not the national deficit, but the lack of interest rates on all the Treasury Bonds. This basically means there is nothing contracting the money supply from the billions of dollars spent through our economy. This basically means that there is more and more available money in the money supply, more of which compared to having interest on that debt. Eventually enough is enough, because people inevitably are going to increase prices because there is more available money.

    My point? You should be yelling at Bernanke to increase interest rates; not at congress to pay back a principle that we owe to a central bank. That doesn't make sense.

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    Re: US debt jumps a record $328 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    If we are so broke, why are things continuing to work? Is it because it is going to break? How long do we speculate that it is going to break before it becomes a self-proclaimed prophecy?

    In my mind, "believe" is the wrong word. I know the national deficit doesn't matter. I suggest you read into how the banking sector works and the flow of money. Once you have a preliminary picture of how everything cycles through the economy, you will see that The Fed can purchase Treasury bonds indefinitely, while the Treasury can issue more bonds and print money indefinitely. Printing money is a requirement for a growing economy and is the prime reason to go to a fiat currency. You would also learn that how our fiat system works is inflationary in nature in a multitude of ways, and it has to be. By manipulating interest rates, you can manipulate the rate of money being removed from the economy.

    I will say it again, the national deficit doesn't matter. The only reason why the Treasury doesn't print it's debt off is The Fed can potentially acquire more wealth by keeping their treasury bonds. The increase stream of interest from the Treasury would cease if all of that debt were to be paid off. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if The Fed can use all of those treasury bonds as an asset, and justify a loan backed by all of those bonds. Then by using that loan, The Fed can invest in whatever it wants to to accrue more wealth.

    What should have you worried, is not the national deficit, but the lack of interest rates on all the Treasury Bonds. This basically means there is nothing contracting the money supply from the billions of dollars spent through our economy. This basically means that there is more and more available money in the money supply, more of which compared to having interest on that debt. Eventually enough is enough, because people inevitably are going to increase prices because there is more available money.

    My point? You should be yelling at Bernanke to increase interest rates; not at congress to pay back a principle that we owe to a central bank. That doesn't make sense.
    So it is like magic, huh? There is no limit to what the government can borrow and spend? Why not borrow enough to give every American $1 million? What you know, I'm afraid is nonsense.

  3. #23
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    Re: US debt jumps a record $328 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    So does that go on last year's tab or this year's tab?
    Hmmm. Good question. I suppose it will go on whichever tab makes the Dems, and the President, look better.

    Seriously, the Treasury had been showing for a number of months the same debt number -

    Treasury: Debt Up $0 in August; CBO: But Deficit Was $146B | CNS News


    Despite this deficit spending, the Treasury reported that at the close of every single business day in August, the federal debt subject to a legal limit by Congress remained exactly $16,699,396,000,000.

    That is approximately just $25 million below the legal limit on the debt that is $16,699,421,095,673.60

    If the federal debt had climbed by the same $146 billion that the deficit climbed in August, it would have exceeded the legal limit by almost $146 billion.

    In fact, according to the Daily Treasury Statements that the Treasury publishes at 4:00 p.m. on each business day, the debt subject to the legal limit has remained at exactly $16,699,396,000,000--or about $25 million below the legal limit--every day since May 17.With the release of the Daily Treasury Statement for Sept. 6 (which occurred at 4:00 p.m on Sept. 9), that makes 112 days that, according to the U.S. Treasury, the debt has been stuck at $16,699,396,000,000


    So, as we can see, the Obama Administration has spent far beyond the authorized limit using the Treasury Departments ability to locate money via "extraordinary measures" to do so. This means they actually hit the debt limit months ago, but the recent "crisis" was just part of the smoke and mirrors of Washington.

    It's rather interesting to watch the uninformed minions on the left hurl accusations they are too brain dead to know have been fed to them via the Southern Orifice that runs through the White House and the DNC.

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    Re: US debt jumps a record $328 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Hmmm. Good question. I suppose it will go on whichever tab makes the Dems, and the President, look better.

    Seriously, the Treasury had been showing for a number of months the same debt number -

    Treasury: Debt Up $0 in August; CBO: But Deficit Was $146B | CNS News


    Despite this deficit spending, the Treasury reported that at the close of every single business day in August, the federal debt subject to a legal limit by Congress remained exactly $16,699,396,000,000.

    That is approximately just $25 million below the legal limit on the debt that is $16,699,421,095,673.60

    If the federal debt had climbed by the same $146 billion that the deficit climbed in August, it would have exceeded the legal limit by almost $146 billion.

    In fact, according to the Daily Treasury Statements that the Treasury publishes at 4:00 p.m. on each business day, the debt subject to the legal limit has remained at exactly $16,699,396,000,000--or about $25 million below the legal limit--every day since May 17.With the release of the Daily Treasury Statement for Sept. 6 (which occurred at 4:00 p.m on Sept. 9), that makes 112 days that, according to the U.S. Treasury, the debt has been stuck at $16,699,396,000,000


    So, as we can see, the Obama Administration has spent far beyond the authorized limit using the Treasury Departments ability to locate money via "extraordinary measures" to do so. This means they actually hit the debt limit months ago, but the recent "crisis" was just part of the smoke and mirrors of Washington.

    It's rather interesting to watch the uninformed minions on the left hurl accusations they are too brain dead to know have been fed to them via the Southern Orifice that runs through the White House and the DNC.
    Hmmm...no new debt since May? That truly is amazing! I wish I could say the same! Talk about being fiscally responsible!

    Good morning, ocean515.

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    Re: US debt jumps a record $328 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    We had 15 days of payments to make in one day, no duh this happened. You guys were warned that shutting down the gov't could cost taxpyers up to 700 billion and yet you said it fine. Don't blame this on Obama, the extreme-ness of it all falling on one day, and added expenses that make it even higher than it would have been, is all on the heads of Cruz and Co.
    You don't understand debt. Do you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: US debt jumps a record $328 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You don't understand debt. Do you?
    5 months of accounting tricks doesn't make 5 months of bills disappear.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: US debt jumps a record $328 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    5 months of accounting tricks doesn't make 5 months of bills disappear.
    Not paying bills for two weeks doesn't create more debt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: US debt jumps a record $328 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not paying bills for two weeks doesn't create more debt.
    It was 5 months, really. But you're oversimplifying things. Apparently you don't understand what these "extraordinary measures" actually entailed.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  9. #29
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    Re: US debt jumps a record $328 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    So it is like magic, huh? There is no limit to what the government can borrow and spend? Why not borrow enough to give every American $1 million? What you know, I'm afraid is nonsense.
    The money in your bank account and in your wallet, is federal debt. In the first stages of the flow of money, the government sells its treasury bonds to The Fed for cash. This cash is spent through government programs and government spending. Which means that government spending is an opening nozzle of the overall money supply. But it also means that the money in the economy started as government spending, and that the money circulating through the economy is the money eventually owed on those bonds sold to The Fed. Therefore, the money supply is debt to the central bank. Therefore if we were to pay our entire national deficit there would be no money. The money supply has to expand at a certain rate. If the supply of money itself becomes too low, at some point prices are going to have to increase (inflation). When you learn more about the economy, you will learn that there are risks of inflation everywhere. The only thing that I can think of that actually drops prices is the drop of demand. Obviously, if there is too much inflation (hyperinflation) the confidence of the currency will be completely lost; it will collapse.

    What constricts this rate of inflation (there is always inflation) are interest rates. That is why I think it is so dangerous to be buying mass treasury bonds at such a low interest rate. If I am correct on this, I think at some point the interest rate on these bonds was 0% (or close to it)! That means that commercial banks, when they lend money, will have crazy low interest rates. And this basically means there is less suckage of money into the banking sector with smaller interest rates. More money remains in the economy so the tendency is for prices to increase.

    Printing everyone 1 million dollars and then increasing interest rates is undoable for different reasons. It would initially work, but then everyone wouldn't work the jobs required to have the life that we live. If people lose the incentive to work and there is no production, that is a collapsed economy.

  10. #30
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    Re: US debt jumps a record $328 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    The money in your bank account and in your wallet, is federal debt. In the first stages of the flow of money, the government sells its treasury bonds to The Fed for cash. This cash is spent through government programs and government spending. Which means that government spending is an opening nozzle of the overall money supply. But it also means that the money in the economy started as government spending, and that the money circulating through the economy is the money eventually owed on those bonds sold to The Fed. Therefore, the money supply is debt to the central bank. Therefore if we were to pay our entire national deficit there would be no money. The money supply has to expand at a certain rate. If the supply of money itself becomes too low, at some point prices are going to have to increase (inflation). When you learn more about the economy, you will learn that there are risks of inflation everywhere. The only thing that I can think of that actually drops prices is the drop of demand. Obviously, if there is too much inflation (hyperinflation) the confidence of the currency will be completely lost; it will collapse.

    What constricts this rate of inflation (there is always inflation) are interest rates. That is why I think it is so dangerous to be buying mass treasury bonds at such a low interest rate. If I am correct on this, I think at some point the interest rate on these bonds was 0% (or close to it)! That means that commercial banks, when they lend money, will have crazy low interest rates. And this basically means there is less suckage of money into the banking sector with smaller interest rates. More money remains in the economy so the tendency is for prices to increase.

    Printing everyone 1 million dollars and then increasing interest rates is undoable for different reasons. It would initially work, but then everyone wouldn't work the jobs required to have the life that we live. If people lose the incentive to work and there is no production, that is a collapsed economy.
    I think, perhaps, the main issue we have with the economy is that very few people have even the slightest understanding of how it works, and even those few cannot predict everything that happens.

    Edit: For example, I have no idea...I read your post and it only confused me more.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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