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Thread: The Republican civil war is just getting started

  1. #51
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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    You have thousands of tea party groups, thousands of local, state and federal campaigns. Whenever a "celebrity" like Bachmann or Palin is invited to speak (which does not mean, by the way, that their views are entirely shared by the hosts), it makes news. Whenever they are not, it doesn't - because - well, nothing 'newsworthy' has happened. 'A bunch of area geeks discuss federal fiscal issues", as The Onion would quip. What you see is a reflection on how the media works, not on the tea parties in general.
    I am so happy to see you use quotations here...

    But yes, the media uses these caricatures to cast ill favored light on what would otherwise be considered a gathering of geeks (your words not mine, the undertones of snobbery never suited my palate...) who have just as much chance affecting things by pounding sand as they do listening to their media darlings...

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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Sure thing. Here it is pegged in 1983 dollars

    83-93 -- 1.7 trillion
    93-03 -- 600 billion
    03-13 -- 3.5 trillion (2.6 trillion since 2008)

    Geez, that makes it look even worse. I guess you should haven't complained about a non adjusted value.
    Seriously?

    First you said:

    83-93 -- 3 trillion (3.3 time less)
    93-03 -- 2.8 trillion (3.5 times less)
    03-13 -- 10 trillion


    Then I said adjust for inflation and you respond with;

    83-93 -- 1.7 trillion (2 times less)
    93-03 -- 600 billion <---no idea how you get this number. If you used 1983 dollars how would this number shrink to less than 1/2 of the 83-93 number when it was almost the same before the calculation?
    03-13 -- 3.5 trillion


    How are these numbers worse?

    So when adjusting for inflation, comparing the years 83-93 to 03-13 we see a difference of 1.3 times less. How is that hurt my argument?

    Frankly I'm a little confused with what you did. In 1983 dollars $3T you quoted would be $3T, $10T would be $7.4T.

    I never claimed that adjusting for inflation would make everything equal, it's not as you portrayed it.

    Now lets look as a percentage of GDP....



    Hmmmm....Looks like Reagan and Bush's did the most damage, by far....

    Look at the debt to GDP ratio when Reagan came in, about 35%, and look at it when bush left, just shy of 70%. A 35% increase. Under Obama about a 10% increase....hmmmmm

    But that doesn't fit your narrative so I'll brace myself for another witty retort...
    Last edited by csbrown28; 10-18-13 at 06:15 PM.

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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Actually, you are wrong.

    The biggest effect the Tea Party had on the government was the 2010 election. Obama wasn't affected, but many Democrat AND Republican lawmakers were.
    You are right about the election of Teaparty financed candidates. They are different than others because they answer to donors that don't care about America only their own interests. What is also new is the big money to finance primary challengers of other Republicans which is how they keep the rest of the House GOP in line.

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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    A [Liberal Democrat; the most Left leaning president in history.
    If you think Obama is the "most left leaning President in History", you better look up Abe Lincoln first...
    "I can't abide women who poke their noses into other people's business."
    “Men are strange. I think it has something to do with the hair on their chins.”

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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Republicans continue to rue the day Nixon was POTUS..
    Not because of Watergate, but because of his dozens of domestic contributions ..
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    You are right about the election of Teaparty financed candidates. They are different than others because they answer to donors that don't care about America only their own interests. What is also new is the big money to finance primary challengers of other Republicans which is how they keep the rest of the House GOP in line.
    When you do your taxes this year, how about throwing in an extra 10 or 15% for the government?
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

  7. #57
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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Strangely enough, I'm okay with it. This has been needed since 2008 and the past few election cycles have just been working up to it.

    The political landscape has massively changed in the near two decades since 1994 compared to the five decades prior to it. The Republican Party is no longer firmly situated into the role of the neigh permanent minority party in power. This is inevitably going to create a change within the mindset and mentality of the base and those within the party infastructure.

    I'm honestly unsure which way this battle goes as it continues, and I don't think it's going to end this election cycle or next, but I think ultimately it's needed within the Republican party. At this point there is a significant divide in terms of the mentality, purpose, and practice within the party that needs to be addressed in some fashion to have a unified message and to allow a "norm" to be established with some acceptable outliers as opposed to two distinct and significant camps.

    It'll likely cause Republicans some issues over the next election, and it will make the 2016 presidential election season extremely interesting. I think it'll be three election cycles....so 2018...before we truly have a good view of how this battle ends up turning out.
    I also welcome it and i think it will be a good move and what they need.

    IMO its simple, go back to the basics.
    Drop all the social issues out of the campaign platform they are a complete waste
    next focus on strong military, strong economy, strong education

    and most importantly focus on being FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE

    BUT

    drop all the rhetoric that is counter productive
    "free loaders"
    "minorities"
    "welfare moms"
    "government teet"

    etc etc etc

    all those words hurt the argument more than they help it, and it makes many people offended because the facts are not everybody on some type of assistance is a freeloader, lazy or a minority etc etc

    focus on the CORRUPTION, the ABUSE, focus on the poor CHECKS and BALANCES, focus on the poor REGULATIONS of the programs, NOT on who the programs provide for or who is ABUSING the system

    because if that is fixed then who is abusing the system gets fixed also, it fixes itself without putting a blanket label on people that many simply dont like.

    I think this is the way to go and the way to gain HONEST support and weed out the fringe or at least make them easier to identify for people that blatantly cant see them or dishonestly lump them all together.

    just my two cents
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  8. #58
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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    Seriously?
    < snip >
    Now lets look as a percentage of GDP....



    Hmmmm....Looks like Reagan and Bush's did the most damage, by far....

    Look at the debt to GDP ratio when Reagan came in, about 35%, and look at it when bush left, just shy of 70%. A 35% increase. Under Obama about a 10% increase....hmmmmm

    But that doesn't fit your narrative so I'll brace myself for another witty retort...
    Quick [obvious] question: what is better, a low debt / GDP ratio or a high debt / GDP ratio?
    Who chimes "No Absolutes!" chimes absolutely.

    zoom zoom

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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
    Quick [obvious] question: what is better, a low debt / GDP ratio or a high debt / GDP ratio?
    I see where this is going, so why don't you address the point.....No one has done more to raise the debt to GDP ratio, than Reagan and the Bush's. Prior to Obama, who was dealt absolute crap and who has contributed 10% to the debt to GDP ratio compared to an increase of 70% between Reagan and the Bush's.

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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    You are right about the election of Teaparty financed candidates. They are different than others because they answer to donors that don't care about America only their own interests. What is also new is the big money to finance primary challengers of other Republicans which is how they keep the rest of the House GOP in line.
    LOL!!

    So what? Do you see that as a bad thing? To me, if the Tea Party is able to put pressure on Congress to reduce government spending, more power to them.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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