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Thread: The Republican civil war is just getting started

  1. #411
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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    AH, and this was predicted MANY years ago...
    Ah, so Dickieboy actually believes the federal govt. about how it claims it intends to use taxpayer money


  2. #412
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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Ah, so Dickieboy actually believes the federal govt. about how it claims it intends to use taxpayer money
    Strawman...

    Why are you now attacking me? Can you not respond to the data provided in #384? Can you not respond to the FACT that SOME of the monies that you claim are being paid in by the 95%ers IS in FACT coming back to them as welfare/entitlements?

    Perhaps just admit you were wrong and move along...
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

  3. #413
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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Strawman...

    Why are you now attacking me? Can you not respond to the data provided in #384? Can you not respond to the FACT that SOME of the monies that you claim are being paid in by the 95%ers IS in FACT coming back to them as welfare/entitlements?
    Ah, I get it. So the FICA taxes aren't really a tax because the feds are saying that those monies will be used to benefit those who pay it. . .

    and Dickieboy, the self-proclaimed "Libertarian" believes the govt.!

    Man, this thread just gets better every post

  4. #414
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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Ah, I get it. So the FICA taxes aren't really a tax because the feds are saying that those monies will be used to benefit those who pay it. . .

    and Dickieboy, the self-proclaimed "Libertarian" believes the govt.!

    Man, this thread just gets better every post
    so you have abandoned the dishonest claim that FICA charges are part of the FEDERAL INCOME TAX and now saying it is really some kind of TAX.

    we are getting somewhere. and as someone who actually was officially part of the Libertarian party, Dickieboy's posts are in line with the movement. Yours appear to be reactionary populist, the descendent of the Know Nothing Movement more than a century ago



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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Can't, still laughing at td's apparent failure to comprehend basic arithmetic.
    Let’s do some basic arithmetic…
    so Federal revenue is ~$3,100b (2012, which includes PR taxes)
    95%ers share (from previous post) 43% = $1,333b
    Social Security disbursements = $772
    Medicare = $530b
    Medicaid = $405
    SNAP = $80b
    I’ll just stop there as you can see that the total of these 4 DIRECT RETURNS of income taxes (including PR as you desire) equals more than what the 95%ers paid…should I continue?
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    ...and Dickieboy, the self-proclaimed "Libertarian" believes the govt.!
    Again, why are you attacking me? My 'lean' is based on that cheesy political calculator and nothing more. My views on the various topic range across the ENTIRE political spectrum...but this discussion is not about ME or MY LEAN...please try to stay on topic and address the questions asked of you...

    And yes, I have voted for candidates from a wide plethora of party affiliations over the years...
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

  7. #417
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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Ah, I get it. So the FICA taxes aren't really a tax because the feds are saying that those monies will be used to benefit those who pay it. . .
    another strawman...why are you being obtuse?
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

  8. #418
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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so you have abandoned the dishonest claim that FICA charges are part of the FEDERAL INCOME TAX and now saying it is really some kind of TAX.

    we are getting somewhere. and as someone who actually was officially part of the Libertarian party, Dickieboy's posts are in line with the movement. Yours appear to be reactionary populist, the descendent of the Know Nothing Movement more than a century ago
    Let's not go overboard here. I am not 'part of the Libertarian party', never have been. As stated previously my positions vary across the political spectrum but the 'political compass' thingy said what it said...?
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

  9. #419
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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    and I was not making any argument other than noting that the top 5% pay more than half of the FEDERAL INCOME TAX.
    Federal tax is just one form of tax. It's like quoting statistics for something but only looking at data on Sunday....

    The Congressional Budget Office breaks down the 2007 share of the tax burden according to each segment of the population as follows:[19]
    The highest quintile in total earned 55.9% of all income. It paid 86.0% of federal income taxes and 68.9% of all federal taxes
    The top 1% earned 19.4% of all income. It paid 39.5% of income taxes and 28.1% of all federal taxes
    The next 4% earned 12.9% of income. It paid 21.5%. of income taxes and 16.2% of all federal taxes
    The next 5% earned 9.7% of income. It paid 11.7% of income taxes and 10.7% of all federal taxes
    The next 10% earned 13.9% of income. It paid 13.3% of income taxes and 13.9% of all federal taxes.
    The fourth quintile earned 19.3% of income. It paid 12.7% of income taxes and 16.5 of all federal taxes.
    The third quintile earned 13.1% of income. It paid 4.6% of income taxes and 9.2% of all federal taxes.
    The second quintile earned 8.4%. It paid a net -0.3% of income taxes, meaning in aggregate this quintile received slightly more back in income tax credits than it paid in income taxes. It paid 4.4% of all federal taxes.
    The lowest quintile earned 4.0% of all income and received a net -3.0% income tax credits. It paid 1.0% of all federal taxes.

    Source: Tax Foundation
    That's INCOME, now Wealth:



    Income is earned each year and is turned into wealth, which in turn can be used to generate more wealth as demonstrated here:



    Now regardless of what you think about taxes, clearly this model is unsustainable.

    The Cons and Libertarians gripe about all the benefits paid to low income families and yet those at the top keep increasing their share of the wealth.

    The fact is that the top 400 people have more wealth than the bottom 160,000,000 people. The top 400 can't consume enough cars, houses, Washers, TV's, vacations and all the everyday items that people buy to keep the people at the bottom employed.

    As a result those at the bottom have to decrease their standard of living.

    China has a more balanced distribution of income!!!

    http://monthlyreview.org/docs/0705tbl3-4.pdf

    The bottom line is that people need money to buy things from those at the top that want to supply it. As income becomes more uneven more and more people are limited to necessities the discretionary income becomes increasingly limited. In turn those industries that furnish items other than food, gas, clothing, housing, electricity, water ect will see decreased demand leading to inevitable layoffs only exacerbating the problem.

    When a super wealthy individual buys a 10 million dollar Van Gogh, how many people does that employ? Think about it.

    No matter how you look at this problem and where you point the finger, it is the increasing share of income and wealth in the top 20% that is creating the problem (not that I blame the top 20% for trying to make it mind you). People at the bottom have, since 1983, had less and less money to spend, leading to fewer jobs and less money to spend. To some degree this has been made up though an increase in credit, which has increasingly made those at the bottom slaves to their debt and in turn to their low wage jobs, that, for the bottom 50% have been decreasing in pay since the 1980's.

  10. #420
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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You said that historians argue about who is more Liberal, Washington, or Lincoln.

    Post a link to those docs, or just admit that you lied through your teeth about the whole issue. Thanks...case closed.
    Except I didn't? I specifically mentioned which study I was talking about, quoted from the study, and then showed you a graph relating modern day political figures. Don't blame me for your willful ignorance on a subject when I've given you all the information you need.
    "I can't abide women who poke their noses into other people's business."
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