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Thread: The Republican civil war is just getting started

  1. #31
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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael66 View Post
    What I really think is that the drones and the rest of it will become totally acceptable to Americans after Obama is gone.
    Well, I really think you are misreading the situation completely. There's a chance of actually changing things for the better, and an actual (however imperfect) forces willing to do it, and you are falling for the crudest propaganda portraying the most responsible citizens as racists, anarchists, extremists, or what-not.

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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    This ain't nothin' but another cry-baby threads about, "Obama's gittin' picked on because he's blaaaaaaaack!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Strangely enough, I'm okay with it. This has been needed since 2008 and the past few election cycles have just been working up to it.

    The political landscape has massively changed in the near two decades since 1994 compared to the five decades prior to it. The Republican Party is no longer firmly situated into the role of the neigh permanent minority party in power. This is inevitably going to create a change within the mindset and mentality of the base and those within the party infastructure.

    I'm honestly unsure which way this battle goes as it continues, and I don't think it's going to end this election cycle or next, but I think ultimately it's needed within the Republican party. At this point there is a significant divide in terms of the mentality, purpose, and practice within the party that needs to be addressed in some fashion to have a unified message and to allow a "norm" to be established with some acceptable outliers as opposed to two distinct and significant camps.

    It'll likely cause Republicans some issues over the next election, and it will make the 2016 presidential election season extremely interesting. I think it'll be three election cycles....so 2018...before we truly have a good view of how this battle ends up turning out.
    If the Democrats did it in the 50s and 60s, I'm sure the Republicans can too.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    This ain't nothin' but another cry-baby threads about, "Obama's gittin' picked on because he's blaaaaaaaack!"
    Actually, it's not even about that. Your irrelevant commentary made it about that. Par for the course really.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The problem is the Tea Party movement was never about that. It was a direct reaction to Obama's election. They had no problem with growing debt for 30 years. They suddenly have a problem with it when Obama gets elected.
    One, I believe the movement began prior to Obama's entry into office (Checking this, I may be misremembering and confusing it with the fact the first protests were against legislation Bush passed, but after Obama took over).***

    Two, you're absolutely correct if your implication is that it increased in scope and intensity after his election, however this can be argued as less having to do with "Obama" or as other members suggested his race and more due to the fact he's a "Democrat". Just as the anti-war movement existed before and after George Bush, but was far greater in scope and intensity under Bush then under Obama. Why? Because, Republican. It's basic tribalism and a basic inherent understanding of a two party system where there's "their guy" and "your guy". If you bring "your guy" down, even if you think he deserves it, the reality is that you're likely going to get "their guy" next instead of a better version of "your guy". And as bad as "your guy" may be on X, "their guy" is probably going to be bad on X as well along with being bad with Y and Z. This is why movements on either side will tend to be more public, loud, and aggressive during times when the opposition is in power and will be more passive, internal, and being the scenes during times when their side is in power save for the die hards in any given movement.

    -Edit-

    Went back and looked and realized why my mind was mixing things up. The use of the "Tea Party" language and terminology as part of Protests were common prior to the election of Obama by Ron Paul supporters in the run up to the primaries in 2008...back when Hillary Clinton was the forgone conclussion for the Democratic Nominee. However, while these were of a very similar mind and mentality of the "Tea Party", they were not officially part of the "tea party movement" as we know today. If anything, they were more of an uncle to it...not directly giving it birth, but being of like mind and style and providing much of the same political DNA (and membership) to the early days of the Tea Party.

    The first "official" Tea Party protests came about in February 2009, and were organized both in protest Bush's passage of TARP and Obama's passage of the ARRA ("stimulus")

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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    What year was Obama elected in? How long have we been trillions in debt?
    You are deflecting. Are libertarians - and the populist Paulite libertarians in particular - not on the record as opposing deficit sending - always?
    Are the central themes of the tea party movement not the same as those of these populist libertarians? Are they not the same people, at the core?
    Yes or No?
    Last edited by Cyrylek; 10-18-13 at 05:11 PM.

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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Actually, it's not even about that. Your irrelevant commentary made it about that. Par for the course really.
    Y"all have no way to defend his policies, so you have to race bait everyone who questions his divine leadership.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  8. #38
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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    One, the movement began prior to Obama's election. Two, you're absolutely correct if your implication is that it increased in scope and intensity after his election, however this can be argued as less having to do with "Obama" or as other members suggested his race and more due to the fact he's a "Democrat". Just as the anti-war movement existed before and after George Bush, but was far greater in scope and intensity under Bush then under Obama. Why? Because, Republican. It's basic tribalism and a basic inherent understanding of a two party system where there's "their guy" and "your guy". If you bring "your guy" down, even if you think he deserves it, the reality is that you're likely going to get "their guy" next instead of a better version of "your guy". And as bad as "your guy" may be on X, "their guy" is probably going to be bad on X as well along with being bad with Y and Z. This is why movements on either side will tend to be more public, loud, and aggressive during times when the opposition is in power and will be more passive, internal, and being the scenes during times when their side is in power save for the die hards in any given movement.
    A [Liberal Democrat; the most Left leaning president in history.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #39
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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTrumps View Post
    I wish I could bookmark threads like this. When Obamacare begins to implode and and Christie wins the White House it will be fun to find out what happened to the people who were so sure it was all over for the GOP. Probably be in hiding by then, huh?
    I appreciate a vivid imagination.

    It will take a quick and rather clean removal of the TPs from the throat of the GOP leadership. That means dozens of House and Senate seats in limbo and most likely a new Stronger House Speaker. I don't see the TPs retreating silently off the political stage. To the TPs Christie winning the White House is a victory in name only. The POLICIES of the President have meaning and Christie has shown he is no friend of the more radical elements of the TP movement AND the TPs know that full well.

    Not sure how to define 'all over for the GOP', in my mind the GOP could easily slide back into a weak sister party holding enough seats in the Senate to be a block on progress, perhaps threaten the House if the fear and hate mongering is ramped up.

    Now as far as hiding goes- Those who predicted Obama would lose his bid for a second term have not gone into hiding. (Don't forget this is just the interwebz)

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    Re: The Republican civil war is just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    So they came up with the name Taxed Enough Already as a cover story for Get Blacky? I'm pretty sure its a complaint about policy that pushes for more social spending by increasing taxes.

    What's the solution to the budget deficit? Spend more money and increase taxes
    What's the solution to social issue X? Spend more money and increase taxes
    What's the solution to fixing healthcare.gov? Spend more money and increase taxes.

    As for the debt, looking at the last 30 years worth of increases:
    83-93 -- 3 trillion
    93-03 -- 2.8 trillion
    03-13 -- 10 trillion ( 7 trillion of which has happened since 08 )
    Now, go back and recalculate those numbers and account for inflation. Or calculate those numbers as a percent to GDP......Otherwise they are out of context and misleading so they can tell the story you want them to tell.

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