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Thread: Insurers reportedly receiving faulty data from ObamaCare exchanges [W:143:248]

  1. #171
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    Re: Insurers reportedly receiving faulty data from ObamaCare exchanges [W:143]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I don't see anything in that quote that says the changes are due to ACA. From what you've quoted, it seems she's talking about the plans in Mass, and even those are not the result of any legislation but rather, insurers trying to keep costs down by creating tiers of doctors based on what they charge.
    Yes, Massachusetts. The state with healthcare reform that served as a model for the ACA and it's wider network of exchanges, and the changes to the health insurence industry, and the measures to keep cost down, are a response to that legislation ...

    And what's so dishonest about your post? Why, it's how you claim this has something to do with the exchange and ACA when the underlying story shows that it's a problem for people who are not buying insurance through the exchange
    How would that change the premise the average consumer isn't competent enough to make such decisions on their own?


    Bechta wasn't buying insurance through the exchange.
    It highlights the fundamental issue with the exchange: that the average consumer doesn't have the ability to make a competent decision here, especially once aca style legislation starts shaping policies

    Massachusetts is in the vanguard with these plans," says Alwyn Cassil at the Center for Studying Health System Change. Cassil says large employers have not been willing to try this type of coverage in other states because the savings aren't worth the change. And Massachusetts is unusual, says Cassil "because of the (insurers) ability to include hospitals." In many states, hospitals can demand to be placed in the top tier of an insurance plan as a contract condition, but not in Massachusetts.
    Yes, before implementation of ACA style legislation, the savings were not worth the hassle in Mass either. But once such took effect, guess what was worth the change ...

    Note :

    On Monday, the AP reported that, as part of its health reform efforts, the federal government would require states to establish online shopping services that would ostensibly make it easier for consumers to research and purchase health insurance.AP reported: “The new marketplaces are supposed to work like an Amazon.com for health insurance, providing consumers with one-stop shopping for competitively priced coverage.”...


    ...The AP story brought to mind a piece I have been waiting to comment on—a fine story by WBUR’s Martha Bebinger that reporters ought to use as a model when looking for interesting ways to report on a not-so-interesting subject....

    ....Dr. Bechta’s experience shows the difficulty of “choosing the best.”
    Last edited by Dr. Chuckles; 10-22-13 at 03:38 AM.

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    Re: Insurers reportedly receiving faulty data from ObamaCare exchanges [W:143]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    People can go down to their local DOH and speak to one in person.
    They have local DOH's out here in the country?

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    Re: Insurers reportedly receiving faulty data from ObamaCare exchanges [W:143]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I really believe that more than just the "progressives" would be loath to deny someone treatment for an illness or accident because they didn't have the foresight to have insurance.

    What is your solution this problem?
    This to me, with all due respect Ditto is the deflection problem that permeates the current administration, and progressive argument we have today.

    To think that it is up to the minority party to come up with a solution to a massive problem that was 100% of the majority party's making, is akin to me to throwing your hands in the air, after walking into a room and kicking all the domino's over, and saying that it is up to others to figure out how to fix it, and save their asses.

    No, it is up to those who broke it, and they now own it lock, stock, and barrel.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Insurers reportedly receiving faulty data from ObamaCare exchanges [W:143]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Yes, Massachusetts. The state with healthcare reform that served as a model for the ACA and it's wider network of exchanges, and the changes to the health insurence industry, and the measures to keep cost down, are a response to that legislation ...
    No, as the underlying article says, it's a response to businesses desire to keep costs down. I quoted where it says that.

    How would that change the premise the average consumer isn't competent enough to make such decisions on their own?
    It doesn't. That premise has nothing to do with ACA. It has to do with the fact that the consumer doesn't know what health care they are going to need.

    It highlights the fundamental issue with the exchange: that the average consumer doesn't have the ability to make a competent decision here, especially once aca style legislation starts shaping policies
    Again, that has nothing to do with ACA. ACA did not render consumers incompetent.




    Yes, before implementation of ACA style legislation, the savings were not worth the hassle in Mass either. But once such took effect, guess what was worth the change ...
    Wrong again. Tiered plans started in Mass before ACA

    Note :
    Again, your quote says nothing about ACA being the cause of this problem. If you think it's because of ACA, please quote where the article says that tiered plans began because of ACA

    The underlying article about Bechta is from Jan 2012, a full year before ACA takes effect

    Here's another article about tiered insurance plans. It's from 2008

    http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/18/hea...421oxford.html
    Last edited by sangha; 10-22-13 at 11:56 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Insurers reportedly receiving faulty data from ObamaCare exchanges [W:143]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I did?
    I don't really think you lost track of it, because I don't think you're stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    You were on this kick about "SLAVES" being "FORCED" to provide something....and that now has been dropped.....to where you argue that health insurance is "complicated".
    That's still the argument. It hasn't been dropped. If you have a right to health care, then someone must provide it for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    If you cannot figure out who, supposedly, the "SLAVE" is, I'll leave you your really ill informed rhetoric.
    The slave is the one who is forced to provide a service for you. It's not that difficult a concept.

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    Re: Insurers reportedly receiving faulty data from ObamaCare exchanges [W:143]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I really believe that more than just the "progressives" would be loath to deny someone treatment for an illness or accident because they didn't have the foresight to have insurance.

    What is your solution this problem?
    Educate people, and then let them make their own choices. Sure, it sucks to see people make bad choices and suffer the consequences. We can't simply take away the consequences for them. It seems as if you want to take away their choices. I don't think that creates a better society.

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    Re: Insurers reportedly receiving faulty data from ObamaCare exchanges [W:143]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, as the underlying article says, it's a response to businesses desire to keep costs down. I quoted where it says that.
    No ****, and those are circumstances directly dependent on ACA style legislation. I suggest researching the history of these plans, how they evolved, and how that was in direct response to such legislation. This is because the legislation naturally made the field less profitable and drove cost cutting measures



    It doesn't. That premise has nothing to do with ACA. It has to do with the fact that the consumer doesn't know what health care they are going to need.
    The entire article is about how the ACA makes a faulty assumption in that the consumer wiill be able to choose the best healthcare plan.

    from the article: <<<AP reported: “The new marketplaces are supposed to work like an Amazon.com for health insurance, providing consumers with one-stop shopping for competitively priced coverage.” As she has before, Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius argued that “more competition will drive down costs and exchanges will give individuals and small businesses the same purchasing power big businesses have today.”>>>

    Again, that has nothing to do with ACA. ACA did not render consumers incompetent.
    from a page back when you originally brought this up

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I'm not sure about that, but that is rather irrelevant to the fact that ACA is built on a model that depends on the avg consumer buying a plan he is just ill prepared to properly access
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I'm not sure pointing to poor planning and implementation serve as the best defense here
    regardless if the individual is poorly prepared to access insurance plans in general, especially in the light that similar legislation has lead to further complexity in other markets, the issue is still that the ACA is reliant on the complete opposite happening

    That would clearly be a problem with the legislation, because it directly ignores such realities and how it will further exacerbate them.



    Wrong again. Tiered plans started in Mass before ACA
    Why be intentionally dishonest? I clearly wrote "ACA style Legislation". And it's well known Mass health reforms under Romney served as the template for the ACA and were initiated long before it. Hence looking at it as an experiment in such legislation being put into practical use


    Here's another article about tiered insurance plans. It's from 2008
    What purpose are you hoping to achieve by being so blatantly dishonest here? Again, I wrote "ACA style legislation". Second, The mass health care reform was initiated in 2006
    Last edited by Dr. Chuckles; 10-22-13 at 12:10 PM.

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    Re: Insurers reportedly receiving faulty data from ObamaCare exchanges [W:143]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No ****, and those are circumstances directly dependent on ACA style legislation. I suggest researching the history of these plans, how they evolved, and how that was in direct response to such legislation. This is because the legislation naturally made the field less profitable and drove cost cutting measures
    Wrong. The article says nothing about it being caused by ACA. Please quote where the article says tiered plans were started because of ACA


    The entire article is about how the ACA makes a faulty assumption in that the consumer wiill be able to choose the best healthcare plan.

    from the article: <<<AP reported: “The new marketplaces are supposed to work like an Amazon.com for health insurance, providing consumers with one-stop shopping for competitively priced coverage.” As she has before, Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius argued that “more competition will drive down costs and exchanges will give individuals and small businesses the same purchasing power big businesses have today.”>>>
    The article does not say that ACA made it harder for consumers to shop for insurance. Please quote where the article says tiered plans were started because of ACA


    from a page back when you originally brought this up


    regardless if the individual is poorly prepared to access insurance plans in general, especially in the light that similar legislation has lead to further complexity in other markets, the issue is still that the ACA is reliant on the complete opposite happening

    That would clearly be a problem with the legislation, because it directly ignores such realities and how it will further exacerbate them.
    Again, the complexity of tiered plans has nothing to do with ACA and ACA does not exacerbate that complexity. If you think so, please quote where the article says tiered plans were started because of ACA

    Why be intentionally dishonest? I clearly wrote "ACA style Legislation". And it's well known Mass health reforms under Romney served as the template for the ACA and were initiated long before it. Hence looking at it as an experiment in such legislation being put into practical use
    Another lie. In several instances, including this latest response of yours, you blame "ACA" not "ACA style legislation"
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #179
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    Re: Insurers reportedly receiving faulty data from ObamaCare exchanges [W:143]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I really believe that more than just the "progressives" would be loath to deny someone treatment for an illness or accident because they didn't have the foresight to have insurance.
    This is a great point. As a libertarian, I can't even bring myself to have emergency rooms turn people away.

    What is your solution this problem?
    For starters, the actual Republican plan from 1993, minus the mandate, would be good. The ACA is based on it, but that's like movies that are "based on a true story." There's a lot of embellishment. Likewise, the Democrats added a lot of things that Republicans would never have supported. Such as mandates for maternity care, no lifetime limits, etc., that push up the cost of insurance. The Republican plan would have just made insurance more affordable through the use of subsidies, and people could choose whatever they wanted. That is the primary flaw with the law, is that the Democrats are trying to force people to buy more than they want, and primarily for political purposes, not medical.

    Actually though, I'd prefer a single-payer, catastrophic only system. Individuals would be responsible for all routine medical costs, while the government would cover the things that don't actually happen to everyone.

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    Re: Insurers reportedly receiving faulty data from ObamaCare exchanges [W:143]

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    I don't really think you lost track of it, because I don't think you're stupid.



    That's still the argument. It hasn't been dropped. If you have a right to health care, then someone must provide it for you.

    The slave is the one who is forced to provide a service for you. It's not that difficult a concept.
    You are back to the same hole again, name these slaves.

    How is a medical worker who is paid by an insurance provider a "slave"?
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
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    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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