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House approves bill to end shutdown

I find it interesting the entire Nebraska delegation voted for it. Deb Fischer and the three representatives seem like the type to vote it down. None of the farm states surrounding it had many of their Senators and Representatives voting for it. Just strikes me as odd, probably a coincidence.
 
Cardinal said:
I think this has settled the Obamacare debate as much as Roe Vs. Wade settled abortion. 26 states have refused Federal funding for the program, which in a perverse sort of way may not be that bad: perhaps if the debate continues to thrive we can actually get universal health care out of the deal.

Hey, I don't have to be a miserable cynic all the time.
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I wouldn't be too sure. i just checked RCP and their average for 6 polls on the ACA is 48% against 38% in favor. I think if the Republicans hadn't been so stupid and needlessly shut down government they would have picked up WV, MT, SD, LA, AR, and AK in next year senate races by running against the ACA in those states now held by Democrats. Now I am not so sure, I think the Republicans really hurt their chances there. But time will tell.

I do think the fate of the ACA now lies in the hands of those who already had insurance. IF they think they get a better deal, you're right, stick a nail in it. But if they think they have been hosed, this fight could continue on to 2016 especially if the Republicans make gains in the senate next year.
 
Well, hopefully the Libertarian party will grow in Congress with these next elections. The shutdown was just one more example of another "Great Awakening" with the American people.

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upsideguy said:
I think the Republicans are smarter than that..... they don't want to have this happen again, even closer to the election. They played out the hand and lost. The Obama care debate is now substantially behind us.
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yeah.. the GOP lost this round of political theater, and i don't think they will revisit it again.

I think they should start playing hardball though...Democrats can't refuse to negotiate or compromise forever.....and the good news is, Democrats will now be forced to address the budget that they have refused to address for 5 years. ( i have zero confidence in the budget being reconciled)

anyways, next political theater topic is... immigration.... there's sure to be more drama there.
my bet is on Democrats trying to ram through some sort of amnesty.. the House saying "hell no" and Obama crying about how evil Republicans are for not letting him have his way.
business as usual in idiotland.
 
Lukas105 said:
Well, hopefully the Libertarian party will grow in Congress with these next elections. The shutdown was just one more example of another "Great Awakening" with the American people.

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Well I doubt the libertarian party will actually gain any seats in Congress, it is possible there could be an increase in more libertarian minded members of congress.
 
Cardinal said:
I think this has settled the Obamacare debate as much as Roe Vs. Wade settled abortion. 26 states have refused Federal funding for the program, which in a perverse sort of way may not be that bad: perhaps if the debate continues to thrive we can actually get universal health care out of the deal.

Hey, I don't have to be a miserable cynic all the time.
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Except that the abortion debate is still not over nor is the debate over for any other liberal accomplishment for that matter. :lol:

Also, pay for your own entitlement programs.
 
So glad that Paul Ryan is now leading the Repubs on a Conference committee, right after he voted no tonite, knowing his vote would be 'scored'..
I only knew of two other definitions for scoring, to etch glass and the teen-age kind..
Repubs actually insisted on including things ALREADY in ACA to be in the bill..
Henrin said:
Except that the abortion debate is still not over nor is the debate over any other liberal accomplishment for that matter. :lol:
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TheDemSocialist said:
Guys we have a government again!! We wont default! Took em long enough.
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Here is the problem. The dems did not actually win. They just kicked the can and made a smaller concession in the final hours than the republicans wanted. They need to recognize that now that more negotiations have to happen they need to start at the far left again so the country sees the concessions they made. Do not start where this bill is bnecause the republicans will start far right again. They do not remember to reset their goals back to default left so that they have something to give up before hitting the right side of middle right off the bat like they always do.

there was no budget passed. The debt ceiling will still be reached again. We will be here again in a few months. We have again rewarded the right wing loonies with concessions. They played the losers in the end because next time the US will remember they conceded and the dems will start from behind again even though they were never ahead.
 
ernst barkmann said:
it does not take a scholar......the u.s. took in 2.7 trillion in revenue for 2013, on average thats over 200 billion a month, our debt payment is about 25 billion a month, ...how can we default since according to law, interest on the debt must be paid.
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I didn't ask for your reasoning based on a naive understanding of economics. I asked you to support your position with credible evidence of experts. As I suspected, you can not.

Again, show us how not raising the debt ceiling would not be catastrophic for the economy.... produce a cite from a credible source (hint, you are not a credible source) or stand down.

When your opinion is challenged you choose laziness and ignorance, like most that hold this view. You don't know and don't want to know. That is scary.
 
Thrilla said:
yeah.. the GOP lost this round of political theater, and i don't think they will revisit it again.

I think they should start playing hardball though...Democrats can't refuse to negotiate or compromise forever.....and the good news is, Democrats will now be forced to address the budget that they have refused to address for 5 years. ( i have zero confidence in the budget being reconciled)

anyways, next political theater topic is... immigration.... there's sure to be more drama there.
my bet is on Democrats trying to ram through some sort of amnesty.. the House saying "hell no" and Obama crying about how evil Republicans are for not letting him have his way.
business as usual in idiotland.
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I think allowing sequester level spending to continue in the CR was a pretty substantive compromise.....
 
upsideguy said:
I think allowing sequester level spending to continue in the CR was a pretty substantive compromise.....
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not really, it was the only option available.... there was no time to negotiate any other spending levels


in any event, it's just a game of kick the can down the road until January... i'm pretty confident the 2 idiot parties will **** it all up again
 
tererun said:
Here is the problem. The dems did not actually win. They just kicked the can and made a smaller concession in the final hours than the republicans wanted. They need to recognize that now that more negotiations have to happen they need to start at the far left again so the country sees the concessions they made. Do not start where this bill is bnecause the republicans will start far right again. They do not remember to reset their goals back to default left so that they have something to give up before hitting the right side of middle right off the bat like they always do.

there was no budget passed. The debt ceiling will still be reached again. We will be here again in a few months. We have again rewarded the right wing loonies with concessions. They played the losers in the end because next time the US will remember they conceded and the dems will start from behind again even though they were never ahead.
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what concessions were awarded to the "right wing loonies"?... be specific.
 
upsideguy said:
I didn't ask for your reasoning based on a naive understanding of economics. I asked you to support your position with credible evidence of experts. As I suspected, you can not.

Again, show us how not raising the debt ceiling would not be catastrophic for the economy.... produce a cite from a credible source (hint, you are not a credible source) or stand down.

When your opinion is challenged you choose laziness and ignorance, like most that hold this view. You don't know and don't want to know. That is scary.
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experts.......your kidding right, you need an expert to tell you the revenue into america for 2013 is?

you need and expert to tell you what the debt payment is?

you cant figure out 2.7 trillion divided by 12 is?


please.....your smarter then that.
 
Thrilla said:
not really, it was the only option available.... there was no time to negotiate any other spending levels


in any event, it's just a game of kick the can down the road until January... i'm pretty confident the 2 idiot parties will **** it all up again
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They definitely took the "shut down the government over Obamacare" off the table. I think it will be very hard to play the "shut the government" or "not raise the debt ceiling" card unless they can steer the Democrats into the position where it appears they locked the doors. That will be very hard to do. They try to play this card again and they will defy mathematical probabilities and actually lose the House. You can get away with one or two bluffs in poker game.
 
ernst barkmann said:
experts.......your kidding right, you need an expert to tell you the revenue into america for 2013 is?

you need and expert to tell you what the debt payment is?

you cant figure out 2.7 trillion divided by 12 is?


please.....your smarter then that.
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I can tell you why that is illogical, but I am not going to as that isn't my point. (which is that I am tired of people reiterating stuff they learned from Rush, but really have no command of the core issue). The fact that the government has sufficient funds for debt coverage does not mean the government is solvent.

I want you to show that you actually did some research on this. If this is true, that the government could not raise the debt limit and it there would not be dire consequences, then it would be pretty easy to find informed, credible support for the position. To constantly say this stuff and not having researched it is to not have an informed opinion (as I know you don't). If you can't back up your claim with experts, you probably are out on a limb (which you are).

The more you refuse to back up your assertions, the more you prove to all of us that you don't really know what you are talking about.
 
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upsideguy said:
They definitely took the "shut down the government over Obamacare" off the table. I think it will be very hard to play the "shut the government" or "not raise the debt ceiling" card unless they can steer the Democrats into the position where it appears they locked the doors. That will be very hard to do. They try to play this card again and they will defy mathematical probabilities and actually lose the House. You can get away with one or two bluffs in poker game.
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it's pretty much over with GOP Republican until after the elections...
they have no leverage to use to get concessions... and Democrats have nothing to lose by shutting them out yet again
Obama knows this, which is why he is immediately getting into immigration reform.... he can buy Hispanic votes and the GOP doesn't have the political capital or the public support to do anything about it.

it would be nice if Democrat and Republican could sit down and negotiate in earnest, but it won't happen....
Blue America versus Red America is still the order of the day, just the way the leaders want it
 
upsideguy said:
I can tell you why that is illogical, but I am not going to as that isn't my point. (which is that I am tired of people reiterating stuff they learned from Rush, but really have no command of the core issue). The fact that the government has sufficient funds for debt coverage does not mean the government is solvent.

I want you to show that you actually did some research on this. If this is true, that the government could not raise the debt limit and it there would not be dire consequences, then it would be pretty easy to find informed, credible support for the position. To constantly say this stuff and not having researched it is to not have an informed opinion (as I know you don't). If you can't back up your claim with experts, you probably are out on a limb (which you are).

The more you refuse to back up your assertions, the more you prove to all of us that you don't really know what you are talking about.
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he saying the same stuff Moody's is saying... that's where I got my information too.

the only folks screaming about an impending default were the administration... they actively pushed that narrative.
 
Thrilla said:
what concessions were awarded to the "right wing loonies"?... be specific.
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before I tell you it is not that I disagree with the concessions, just that putting them there will be taken the wrong way by the loonies. It will embolden them down the road to go for more radical stuff rather than actually looking to come up with good ideas to fix obamacare or make it better.

The concessions that i know of are that congress is supposed to use the exchanges now, and they will put more effort into making sure people who claim subsidies are rightfully doing so. I could be wrong about those actually being in there. There has been a lot of back and forth, but i think those provisions were added in there. I agree it should have been in there, but the reality is it should not have been allowed to be attached to the budget. They should have had real votes on making that happen so people could see in the open which representatives were supportive of these ideas and which were not. We cannot tell now because the big thing was getting the government started and the debt ceiling. This is why I hate riders.
 
upsideguy said:
Kindly produce a reference from a credible economist that agrees with this position, as it is generally regarded as a position held by the ill-informed. You believing it to be true does not make it true. If you can't produce such a reference then, if you are smart, you too will no longer believe it to be true.
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Moody’s Confirms: US Won’t Default | Power Line

Steven Hess, Moody’s principal U.S. sovereign credit analyst, said:We believe the government would continue to pay interest and principal on its debt even in the event that the debt limit is not raised, leaving its creditworthiness intact. The debt limit restricts government expenditures to the amount of its incoming revenues; it does not prohibit the government from servicing its debt. There is no direct connection between the debt limit (actually the exhaustion of the Treasury’s extraordinary measures to raise funds) and a default.

The statutory debt limit is a limit on the amount of debt outstanding. As debt matures, it can be refinanced with new Treasury issuance without affecting the total amount of debt (principal). Interest, by contrast, is an expenditure and could be included among the expenses that the Treasury could decide not to pay.
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tererun said:
before I tell you it is not that I disagree with the concessions, just that putting them there will be taken the wrong way by the loonies. It will embolden them down the road to go for more radical stuff rather than actually looking to come up with good ideas to fix obamacare or make it better.

The concessions that i know of are that congress is supposed to use the exchanges now, and they will put more effort into making sure people who claim subsidies are rightfully doing so. I could be wrong about those actually being in there. There has been a lot of back and forth, but i think those provisions were added in there. I agree it should have been in there, but the reality is it should not have been allowed to be attached to the budget. They should have had real votes on making that happen so people could see in the open which representatives were supportive of these ideas and which were not. We cannot tell now because the big thing was getting the government started and the debt ceiling. This is why I hate riders.
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The Congress & the exchange thing was set way before the deal was made. Congress and their staffers had to go through the exchanges for insurance but were subsidized as if it were the employers portion of it being paid. Unless there is something added to that, which I am not sure of, I havent seen the approved bill yet.
 
Imnukingfutz said:
The Congress & the exchange thing was set way before the deal was made. Congress and their staffers had to go through the exchanges for insurance but were subsidized as if it were the employers portion of it being paid. Unless there is something added to that, which I am not sure of, I havent seen the approved bill yet.
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It was very vague what the concessions were every time I read it. It seems the reps are not bragging, and the dems are not spiking. I assume it was something just enough to let the republicans pretend they got something. I am actually fine with that. I just want the dems to remember when they come back to the table to start left and not where this bill goes. This present bill was the hammered out reduced ACA. If they want to argue the issue again start from the beginning and not from the end because republicans are not going to start anywhere but full repeal. If they do not have a suggestion to improve the ACA make them argue the whole thing again and not kick the budget down the road for the next year until elections.
 
tererun said:
It was very vague what the concessions were every time I read it. It seems the reps are not bragging, and the dems are not spiking. I assume it was something just enough to let the republicans pretend they got something. I am actually fine with that. I just want the dems to remember when they come back to the table to start left and not where this bill goes. This present bill was the hammered out reduced ACA. If they want to argue the issue again start from the beginning and not from the end because republicans are not going to start anywhere but full repeal. If they do not have a suggestion to improve the ACA make them argue the whole thing again and not kick the budget down the road for the next year until elections.
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All they have been doing for decades is kick the can down the road for someone else to deal with.

According to the Administration, they are not fixing anything until after it gets implemented. Which is not a real smart thing to do.

What is burning me up about this is they are still allowing the President (any President, not just this one) to change portions of the law without Congressional approval. To me, that is a violation of the Constitutional powers of the President.

And why I say that...
During the Bush years, he was lambasted for going through the secretive FISA courts to wire tap peoples phones. We the people complained and the politicians gave it lip service so they seemed like they cared, but did nothing. Now we have a President that is collecting every single phone call and e-mail from every single American in the country...and now there is not even lip service against it.

You give one President an inch to bend the law the next one will take a mile shattering the law while those that represent us do nothing.

Consolidation of power under one branch while the others do nothing to stop it, some actually encouraging it.
 
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