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Thread: House approves bill to end shutdown

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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Imnukingfutz View Post
    I never said there were heroes in either party, I believe I have been pretty consistent that both parties are really one and the same.
    In that we are pretty much agreed.

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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukas105 View Post
    If your getting that information from internet polls, its usually complete partisan bull****.
    pew reports its at record low Pew Poll: Support For Tea Party Drops To Lowest Ever : NPR
    Gallup reports 1% above record low Tea Party Support Dwindles to Near-Record Low

    Or is that the big bad "liberal bias"?


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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    pew reports its at record low Pew Poll: Support For Tea Party Drops To Lowest Ever : NPR
    Gallup reports 1% above record low Tea Party Support Dwindles to Near-Record Low

    Or is that the big bad "liberal bias"?
    It depends on what questions were submitted to be polled, who they polled, who commissioned the poll.

    Poll numbers are nothing more than data to be manipulated, what results do you want.

    More and more people every week seem to be going to the Tea Party meeting here in town every month.
    Know the truth and the truth will make you mad, because the truth has no agenda.

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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    why do you believe a default was in the cards?

    not even Moody's thought we were at risk for a default.... even if the shutdown continued or the debt ceiling wasn't increased?
    We weren't at risk for default but we were on a downgrade watch...and were downgraded last time the debt ceiling was used as a political tool.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I never suggested otherwise. That's what rolling over maturing debt is. As noted previously, in the approach to debt default, numerous countries experienced greater and greater difficulty in issuing debt to replace maturing debt. Interest rates spiked, further undermining investor appetite for their debt securities, and soon afterward they found themselves locked out of the global debt markets. In turn, faced with what had become crushing payments obligations from the combination of rapidly rising interest costs and maturing principal obligations, they defaulted on their debt service.

    you are going to effects of what happens, because of the not being able to borrow. ...i understand that

    i am stating plainly.......we were never going to default..never. those were scare tactics of politicians in Washington.

    going pass the 17th, the u.s. still has the money to meet its obligations, on the mandatory spending becuase of tax revenues.

    however we would not be able to borrow any more money, .......so every dime of tax money for discretionary spending would have to be prioritized.

    meaning we could meet our bills on things which government must do, however things which government does not have to do, would, ..........not likely be funded.........many things would be cut, its estimated the u.s. has 1 to 1 1/2 trillion dollars in unnecessary spending, it does not have to engage in.

    from 1788 to 1995....it took the u.s. to reach the 1.5 trillion dollar budget mark, today just 18 years later........our budget is 3.5 trillion..in 18 years we have more than doubled the budget, then it took 207 years to reach.

    Washington has the money to pay it constitutional obligations, but going pass the 17th, means no more pork, and uncontrolled spending, Washington would have to watch every dollar it spends.

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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you are going to effects of what happens, because of the not being able to borrow. ...i understand that

    i am stating plainly.......we were never going to default..never. those were scare tactics of politicians in Washington.

    going pass the 17th, the u.s. still has the money to meet its obligations, on the mandatory spending becuase of tax revenues.

    however we would not be able to borrow any more money, .......so every dime of tax money for discretionary spending would have to be prioritized.

    meaning we could meet our bills on things which government must do, however things which government does not have to do, would, ..........not likely be funded.........many things would be cut, its estimated the u.s. has 1 to 1 1/2 trillion dollars in unnecessary spending, it does not have to engage in.

    from 1788 to 1995....it took the u.s. to reach the 1.5 trillion dollar budget mark, today just 18 years later........our budget is 3.5 trillion..in 18 years we have more than doubled the budget, then it took 207 years to reach.

    Washington has the money to pay it constitutional obligations, but going pass the 17th, means no more pork, and uncontrolled spending, Washington would have to watch every dollar it spends.
    except it was not just the people in Washington warning us, it was the entire world!

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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    except it was not just the people in Washington warning us, it was the entire world!
    if you have the money to meet your constitutional obligations..what is the problem?

    that foreign countries dont get their aid.

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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i do not know why simple math always fails........
    Simple math is not sufficient!

    the federal government collects taxes...many taxes..they dont stop...... they continue to flow into the government at a rate of over 250 billion a month.
    Over the course of a year, yes. However, there is actually quite a bit of seasonal volatility with respect to tax collection.

    interest on the debt is mandatory it must be paid...no matter what.
    No doubt! The problem arises when investors no longer roll over their holdings and demand principal. Such an event could wipe out the treasuries ability to pay, and would be considered a default. As Don has pointed out, even if a massive computer programming project to prioritized treasury repayments occurs, a bug that delays payment -even for a few seconds- would be considered a default.

    all revenues flowing into Washington would have to be prioritized to meet current spending.
    This happens overnight?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you are going to effects of what happens, because of the not being able to borrow. ...i understand that

    i am stating plainly.......we were never going to default..never. those were scare tactics of politicians in Washington.
    Debt default involves failing to make debt service payments on time. Debt service includes maturing principal and interest. Your definition includes interest, alone. There was uncertainty as to whether the U.S. would continue to be able to borrow sufficient funds to meet its principal obligations. That level of uncertainty made it impossible to be certain that the U.S. would not default on its debt service. So, while one cannot say the U.S. would be assured of having defaulted on its debt service, one cannot say that the U.S. would "never" have defaulted on its debt service. However, the experience of countries that wound up in situations where they began to miss payments does not provide comfort.

    going pass the 17th, the u.s. still has the money to meet its obligations, on the mandatory spending becuase of tax revenues.
    The 17th was not the date on which the U.S. defaulted. It was the date on which the U.S. had no additional extraordinary measures available. The estimate was that it would have had $30 billion in cash on hand on that date giving it a narrow margin going forward. The CBO estimated that the cash balance would have been exhausted between October 22 and October 31.

    https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fi...ederalDebt.pdf

    its estimated the u.s. has 1 to 1 1/2 trillion dollars in unnecessary spending...
    Whether spending is "necessary" or not is a matter of political and ideological view. That's entirely a different matter from how the government would have handled a situation under which its cash was eventually depleted and whether that situation would have led to its inability to roll over its maturing debt triggering a debt default.

    from 1788 to 1995....it took the u.s. to reach the 1.5 trillion dollar budget mark, today just 18 years later........our budget is 3.5 trillion..in 18 years we have more than doubled the budget, then it took 207 years to reach.

    Washington has the money to pay it constitutional obligations, but going pass the 17th, means no more pork, and uncontrolled spending, Washington would have to watch every dollar it spends.
    One needs to put the those debt numbers into context by comparing them to the size of the nation's economy. The big fiscal challenge is in the longer-term, where the nation faces enormous imbalances. Reform--mandatory spending and tax policy--will be needed to address those imbalances. The U.S. still enjoys the flexibility to do so in a meaningful fashion without large-scale macroeconomic disruption. Any debt crisis that would have resulted from the failure to raise the debt ceiling on a timely basis would have been self-inflicted, not the result of an inability to meet those imbalances that still lie in the future.

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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    if you have the money to meet your constitutional obligations..what is the problem?

    that foreign countries dont get their aid.
    i dno't think it is possible to manipulate the machines that process our payments on the fly.

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