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Thread: House approves bill to end shutdown

  1. #61
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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Debt service includes both principal and interest payments. If the government can successfully roll over maturing Treasury securities, then ability to cover interest payments alone determines whether debt default takes place. However, were the federal government to default on other obligations, one cannot assume that every holder of maturing Treasury securities would roll them over at maturity. Numerous countries experienced rapidly weakening demand for debt securities leading both to skyrocketing interest rates and increasingly unsuccessful debt auctions as they approached debt default.

    Each week, the Treasury rolls over approximately $100 billion in maturing Treasury securities. That exceeds average monthly revenue.

    Remarks of Secretary Lew before the Economic Club of Washington, D.C.

    Moreover, neither maturing obligations nor revenue flows are relatively equal each month.
    the government does not pay its debts as you and i do....... meaning they re-borrow to pay their debts when they come due.

    america borrowed money to fight WWI , we are still paying that debt.

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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Debt service includes both principal and interest payments. If the government can successfully roll over maturing Treasury securities, then ability to cover interest payments alone determines whether debt default takes place. However, were the federal government to default on other obligations, one cannot assume that every holder of maturing Treasury securities would roll them over at maturity. Numerous countries experienced rapidly weakening demand for debt securities leading both to skyrocketing interest rates and increasingly unsuccessful debt auctions as they approached debt default.

    Each week, the Treasury rolls over approximately $100 billion in maturing Treasury securities. That exceeds average monthly revenue.

    Remarks of Secretary Lew before the Economic Club of Washington, D.C.

    Moreover, neither maturing obligations nor revenue flows are relatively equal each month.
    How long would it take to reprogram the payment system to ensure debt service and principal payments were prioritized; at least a couple of weeks?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the government does not pay its debts as you and i do....... meaning they re-borrow to pay their debts when they come due.

    america borrowed money to fight WWI , we are still paying it.
    You are missing the point because it displays the error in your thinking. Pending a default, there is no guarantee the demand for U.S. treasuries would be constant.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    Actually in a system where you are not sure of where the problems will come with costs that is exactly what you do. You put it into effect and you hammer out the details. Expecting perfection from the start is a BS tactic that the reps use because they do not want anything at all. Was the original constitution perfect when they put it in place? hell no, that is an absurd goal.
    I hate multi part posts...its too easy to get lost...for me at least.

    What about the areas where you know there is a problem but refuse to worry about fixing it because the implementation date is too near...like a lot of the things that were pointed out.

    What does that have to do with repealing the E.O. that made the administration immune from the ACA? Is that the way this country works...laws for thecommon people and laws for the politically elite?

    No one should ever expect perfection right off the bat, but dont treat it like Chevy treated the Vega...a known piece of horse squeeze that was a waste of money and that no one wanted but go ahead and push it out anyway because the model year is starting. We will fix the issues as we go.

    Dont expect the broken BS from Washington to ever be fixed, their solution is to throw more money at it hoping it will fix itself.
    Know the truth and the truth will make you mad, because the truth has no agenda.

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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    How long would it take to reprogram the payment system to ensure debt service and principal payments were prioritized; at least a couple of weeks?
    I don't know. It would be a very large undertaking. There would probably be high risk of bugs that could still inhibit the effectiveness of a prioritization effort. IMO, the actions of some, including two possible 2016 Presidential candidates from the Senate, to use the debt ceiling as leverage for extraneous policy demands were extremely irresponsible and reckless. They appeared to have no understanding of how quickly things could disintegrate were the U.S. unable to meet all of its obligations as they come due. Even under prioritization, a glitch could lead to a missed payment, in turn leading to a market stampede. The intensive linkages between the U.S. Treasury securities market and U.S. and global financial institutions would lead to high risk of contagion. Even under successful prioritization, some investors would very likely conclude that if a nation chooses not to pay other obligations, eventually that precedent could expand elsewhere, including its debt securities. I don't think those Senators and Representatives truly understand the importance of maintaining U.S. financial credibility nor how quickly confidence can evaporate when that credibility is undermined.

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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I don't know. It would be a very large undertaking. There would probably be high risk of bugs that could still inhibit the effectiveness of a prioritization effort. IMO, the actions of some, including two possible 2016 Presidential candidates from the Senate, to use the debt ceiling as leverage for extraneous policy demands were extremely irresponsible and reckless. They appeared to have no understanding of how quickly things could disintegrate were the U.S. unable to meet all of its obligations as they come due. Even under prioritization, a glitch could lead to a missed payment, in turn leading to a market stampede. The intensive linkages between the U.S. Treasury securities market and U.S. and global financial institutions would lead to high risk of contagion. Even under successful prioritization, some investors would very likely conclude that if a nation chooses not to pay other obligations, eventually that precedent could expand elsewhere, including its debt securities. I don't think those Senators and Representatives truly understand the importance of maintaining U.S. financial credibility nor how quickly confidence can evaporate when that credibility is undermined.
    I couldn't agree more Don.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    You are missing the point because it displays the error in your thinking. Pending a default, there is no guarantee the demand for U.S. treasuries would be constant.
    i do not know why simple math always fails........

    the federal government collects taxes...many taxes..they dont stop...... they continue to flow into the government at a rate of over 250 billion a month.

    interest on the debt is mandatory it must be paid...no matter what.

    would going pass the oct 17 deadline mean something ..yes .....it would becuase the u.s. could no longer borrow money, all revenues flowing into Washington would have to be prioritized to meet current spending.

    would there be enough money to cover all mandatory spending ......yes... its about 66% of all spending.......would their be enough money to cover all discretionary spending ........no.

    this means government would actually have to Do real thinking, and spend money were it is actually need to do things which are required for government operations.

    many of the wasteful things congress spends our money on you have to ..stop, .......and not be paid.

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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post

    Actually the president does have powers to decide how to implement the law. That is just you being wrong about what a president does.
    Not when that law specifically sets a date for implementation.

    Example;
    The law says that portions D, J, K, & B are to be implemented on Date X, then on date X those portions become law. To not implement them on that specified date requires another law allowing its delay.

    Where do all laws have to start? in Congress.

    No where, anywhere does anything give a President the power to change any law.
    Know the truth and the truth will make you mad, because the truth has no agenda.

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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the government does not pay its debts as you and i do....... meaning they re-borrow to pay their debts when they come due.

    america borrowed money to fight WWI , we are still paying that debt.
    I never suggested otherwise. That's what rolling over maturing debt is. As noted previously, in the approach to debt default, numerous countries experienced greater and greater difficulty in issuing debt to replace maturing debt. Interest rates spiked, further undermining investor appetite for their debt securities, and soon afterward they found themselves locked out of the global debt markets. In turn, faced with what had become crushing payments obligations from the combination of rapidly rising interest costs and maturing principal obligations, they defaulted on their debt service.

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    Re: House approves bill to end shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    This is a whole different issue, and I agree those laws are unconstitutional and should not be in place. If the republicans in congress took obama to task over the activities of the NSA I would be all for it. They would get cheers from me for doing it. They are not going to do it because they want those powers too, and that is why I take the position they are all enemies. Still you could eliminate Obamacare and your problem still exists. Hell, if Boehner said end the patriot and espionage act or else he will not fund the government I would consider voting for the man for president as a good thing. But he didn't do that. No one made a grand stand against the patriot act. Even when they could have put it in there no one came forward to do it. So please do not tell me there are heroes in either party in that fight.
    I never said there were heroes in either party, I believe I have been pretty consistent that both parties are really one and the same.
    Know the truth and the truth will make you mad, because the truth has no agenda.

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