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Senate reaches deal to end shutdown, avoid default

Kushinator said:
Come on, this is just too easy!

The level of debt is of no consequence; it's really a matter of output! For example, in 1947, debt to output was roughly 120% - 140% depending on if you use GNP or GDP. At that time, it was roughly $290 billion in federal debt, relative to $260 billion in output.

If someone in 1947 said we would never be able to pay off that in 100 years, they would be wrong. The U.S. pays roughly $420 billion in interest payments annually. In 66 years, who knows what the level of the public debt will be. We do know that the interest payments will be somewhere in area of $17 trillion :2razz:
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Your logic is filled with more holes than swiss cheese

The debt level is of no consequence? Yea ok

In 1947 we were gearing down from WW2. We had to just fought a massive world war. Europe was in ashes. The United States as a country was completely unharmed and was in a position of massive economic superiority. There are nowhere near those conditions right now, as Obama has nearly doubled the deficit in 5 years.

Chinese agency downgrades US credit rating - FRANCE 24

Dollar slides as relief at U.S. debt deal fades - Yahoo Finance

Kushinator said:
The shutdown will end up costing the American taxpayer (every citizen at that) $24 billion in economic activity, and about $5.4 billion in tax revenue.

You must be very proud of the men and women you voted for!
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How are Government workers paid?

It's just a shifting of resources. An economy isn't sustainable dependent upon EBT and federal workers (paid with taxpayer money) shopping at Wal-Mart
 
Bronson said:
Your logic is filled with more holes than swiss cheese

The debt level is of no consequence? Yea ok

In 1947 we were gearing down from WW2. We had to just fought a massive world war. Europe was in ashes. The United States as a country was completely unharmed and was in a position of massive economic superiority. There are nowhere near those conditions right now, as Obama has nearly doubled the deficit in 5 years.

Chinese agency downgrades US credit rating - FRANCE 24

Dollar slides as relief at U.S. debt deal fades - Yahoo Finance



How are Government workers paid?

It's just a shifting of resources. An economy isn't sustainable dependent upon EBT and federal workers (paid with taxpayer money) shopping at Wal-Mart
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Exactly and the Senate has already passed a bill giving back pay to those Govt. employees that were affected by the shutdown. There are no consequences for failure in the liberal world and what liberals will never understand is that we have stagnant economic growth today with all that debt making it unsustainable.
 
Bronson said:
Your logic is filled with more holes than swiss cheese

The debt level is of no consequence? Yea ok

In 1947 we were gearing down from WW2. We had to just fought a massive world war. Europe was in ashes. The United States as a country was completely unharmed and was in a position of massive economic superiority. There are nowhere near those conditions right now, as Obama has nearly doubled the deficit in 5 years.
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The U.S. is coming out of the worst financial downturn since the 1930's, which in turn was the catalyst for the debt explosion since 2008. You fail to consider the deficits contribution to economic output in the wake of a massive private sector slowdown. As long as output growth outpaces the growth in the deficit (as well as inflation > 0%), U.S. debt as a percentage of output will in fact fall. This year alone the deficit will have declined by roughly 40%, while nominal growth is still in 4% territory.

fredgraph.png


How are Government workers paid?

It's just a shifting of resources. An economy isn't sustainable dependent upon EBT and federal workers (paid with taxpayer money) shopping at Wal-Mart
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I never said an economy or our economy completely depends on EBT and federal workers. Many private sector firms that had to cease operations because the federal government was their largest customer. An entire subset of the economy was operating at a fraction, which in turn cost the entire economy $24 billion in economic activity and $5.4 billion in tax revenue.

As stated, you must be proud!
 
Conservative said:
Exactly and the Senate has already passed a bill giving back pay to those Govt. employees that were affected by the shutdown.
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It is not just the federal workers, but the total expenditures that were not realized along with the economic activity that results from those expenditures.

There are no consequences for failure in the liberal world and what liberals will never understand is that we have stagnant economic growth today with all that debt making it unsustainable.
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This sentence doesn't make sense; three different statements jammed into one.
 
Aw, the good old days, what happened?

IT DIDN'T SEEM LIKE IT THEN, but the winter of '09 — when America's debt was just over $10 trillion and Barack Obama was taking his first oath of office — seems like the 'good ol' days' as five years and six shattered debt-ceilings later, America's debt is set to hit $17 trillion, with no end in sight.
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What doesn't make any sense are the liberal economic policies that continue to add to the debt and ignore the debt ceiling just like they did in 2011. Someone needs to explain what happened in 2011 and why we are having the same argument today? Is there anyone here that thinks Obama gives a damn about the debt?

What liberals don't seem to understand is that we have an unsustainable growing debt that is burying us and generating exactly what Obama wants a massive central govt. that is the number one component of GDP
 
Kushinator said:
The U.S. is coming out of the worst financial downturn since the 1930's, which in turn was the catalyst for the debt explosion since 2008. You fail to consider the deficits contribution to economic output in the wake of a massive private sector slowdown. As long as output growth outpaces the growth in the deficit (as well as inflation > 0%), U.S. debt as a percentage of output will in fact fall. This year alone the deficit will have declined by roughly 40%, while nominal growth is still in 4% territory.

fredgraph.png




I never said an economy or our economy completely depends on EBT and federal workers. Many private sector firms that had to cease operations because the federal government was their largest customer. An entire subset of the economy was operating at a fraction, which in turn cost the entire economy $24 billion in economic activity and $5.4 billion in tax revenue.

As stated, you must be proud!
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This is comical

The deficit will have declined by 40%? We're 7 trillion in the hole since Obama took office. Where are you getting these talking points?

You've completely missed the boat. Look at the economic factors of 1947. It's not even remotely comparable. The number of workers who produced services (not goods) increased dramatically. We went from a blue collar economy to a white collar economy. It was all private sector innovation that fueled this growth. REAL growth. Not this pathetic charade on display from The Obama Regime.

None of this charade is even remotely sustainable without Fed (private bank) trickery. Look at the economic statistics. Everyone but the rich (Obama's pals) are getting poorer and more dependent upon Government. Our savings are being robbed and looted by Wall Street. Only The Left would cheer this ponzi scheme #smh
 
Bronson said:
The deficit will have declined by 40%?
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Yes.

If the current laws that govern federal taxes and spending do not change, the budget deficit will shrink this year to $642 billion, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates, the smallest shortfall since 2008. Relative to the size of the economy, the deficit this year—at 4.0 percent of gross domestic product (GDP)—will be less than half as large as the shortfall in 2009, which was 10.1 percent of GDP.
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source

($0.642 trillion - $1.1 trillion) / $1.1 trillion = -41.64%

The rest of your post was opinionated drivel.
 
Kushinator said:
Come on, this is just too easy!

The level of debt is of no consequence; it's really a matter of output! For example, in 1947, debt to output was roughly 120% - 140% depending on if you use GNP or GDP. At that time, it was roughly $290 billion in federal debt, relative to $260 billion in output.

If someone in 1947 said we would never be able to pay off that in 100 years, they would be wrong. The U.S. pays roughly $420 billion in interest payments annually. In 66 years, who knows what the level of the public debt will be. We do know that the interest payments will be somewhere in area of $17 trillion :2razz:
Click to expand...

So when do we pay off the $7 trillion in debt we've added in Obama's five years?
 
Erod said:
So when do we pay off the $7 trillion in debt we've added in Obama's five years?
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Obama couldn't care less about the debt and that is why he proposed a 3.77 trillion dollar budget. He is getting exactly what he wants, a massive central govt. with dependent people just like they have in Europe. He wants the govt. to control GDP like in Europe and the little minions that support him have no problem with that.
 
Erod said:
So when do we pay off the $7 trillion in debt we've added in Obama's five years?
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The point is, we don't have to!
 
Kushinator said:
The point is, we don't have to!
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You're dreaming. You can't pay the Visa card with the Mastercard, and the Mastercard with the Amex card, forever and ever. Eventually, your money becomes worthless, and the debtor wants the note paid with real money.
 
Erod said:
You're dreaming. You can't pay the Visa card with the Mastercard, and the Mastercard with the Amex card, forever and ever. Eventually, your money becomes worthless, and the debtor wants the note paid with real money.
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Real money that is worth something at that! Keep printing and borrowing money and see how much that money buys
 
Erod said:
You're dreaming. You can't pay the Visa card with the Mastercard, and the Mastercard with the Amex card, forever and ever. Eventually, your money becomes worthless, and the debtor wants the note paid with real money.
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Already showed how total debt in 1947 is less than our current interest payments. Money only becomes worthless if there is no production to back it.
 
Kushinator said:
Yes.



source

($0.642 trillion - $1.1 trillion) / $1.1 trillion = -41.64%

The rest of your post was opinionated drivel.
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This is the best you can do? This little box? Your position is so pitiful it's barely worth my time. Consider this the last response.

You realize the only reason why there is this reduction (for 1 year and the deficit is still increasing by more than 600 billion FAIL) is because of The Sequester right? Wait until Obamacare spending kicks into high gear which is why Obama is trying to get rid of The Sequester. It was his own idea that backfired on him. Even Left Wing journalists are reporting that The Sequester was a Republican victory because it decreased overall spending. Only a reduction in the rate of spending growth, but it still reduced the baseline. Without a Republican House, none of this spending reduction you are championing would have ever happened. You're actually citing The Republican successes as progress.

7 Trillion in 5 years added to the deficit. You have no answer for that, yet you still claim the deficit is being reduced with a straight face. /point /laugh

This thread should be bookmarked. Kushinator finally supports Republican Policies and spending cuts

Anyways keep on keepin on Kush :2wave:
 
Kushinator said:
Already showed how total debt in 1947 is less than our current interest payments. Money only becomes worthless if there is no production to back it.
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So you've spun a cocoon for yourself, based on a scenario from the Truman administration, and written off all concerns for a debt that dwarfs it by embarassing proportions.

I wonder how much concern there was on this forum back in 1947.
 
Bronson said:
This is the best you can do? This little box? Your position is so pitiful it's barely worth my time. Consider this the last response.
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Why even bother responding to a post based entirely on fact with a plethora of partisan subjectiveness? The budget has declined by more than 40% primarily due to a 15% increase in revenues.
 
Someone ask Kush what budget, the 3.77 trillion budget submitted by Obama? Wonder how much money we are losing because we have 22 million unemployed/under employed/discourage workers? Wonder how much we are losing because of the stagnant economic growth? With all that reduction in the deficit it does seem that it isn't enough to lower the debt. Maybe people like Kush don't know the difference? By the way, be careful, Kush runs to the Mods when he is losing badly.
 
I for one am disappointed. I was really hoping that this would be the end of this financial paradigm and the world could move on to something better.
 
Not sure exactly where this should go, but this bill may be much bigger news than is presently being reported on..

There's a section in the bill called the "Default Prevention Act of 2013". It starts on Pg 24 line 10:

My read is that it gives the President unilateral authority to suspend the debt ceiling. Congress would no longer have to pass debt ceiling increases, they'd have to vote to PREVENT a debt ceiling increase. Then they'd have to override a presidential veto.

Basically, the debt ceiling may be off the table forever.
 
Erod said:
So you've spun a cocoon for yourself, based on a scenario from the Truman administration, and written off all concerns for a debt that dwarfs it by embarassing proportions.

I wonder how much concern there was on this forum back in 1947.
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"When the stock market crashed, Franklin D. Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the, you know, the princes of greed." –Joe Biden
 
Conservative said:
Someone ask Kush what budget, the 3.77 trillion budget submitted by Obama? Wonder how much money we are losing because we have 22 million unemployed/under employed/discourage workers? Wonder how much we are losing because of the stagnant economic growth? With all that reduction in the deficit it does seem that it isn't enough to lower the debt. Maybe people like Kush don't know the difference? By the way, be careful, Kush runs to the Mods when he is losing badly.
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I've noticed that from other leftists as well.
 
Mithros said:
Not sure exactly where this should go, but this bill may be much bigger news than is presently being reported on..

There's a section in the bill called the "Default Prevention Act of 2013". It starts on Pg 24 line 10:

My read is that it gives the President unilateral authority to suspend the debt ceiling. Congress would no longer have to pass debt ceiling increases, they'd have to vote to PREVENT a debt ceiling increase. Then they'd have to override a presidential veto.

Basically, the debt ceiling may be off the table forever.
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Do you feel that would be a good thing?
 
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