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Patients Pay Before Seeing Doctor as Deductibles Spread

They had great insurance through IBM for twenty years, it wasn't until Obama care that IBM and many other companies did this just like the "crazy right wingers" predicted would happen.

They had great insurance (and quite a few other perks) back in the early 80's. After that new management took over IBM and all their employees took it up the ass.
 
If you are a middle income family or a young person, you have lost big time. Your purpose in Democrat political life is now to support Mexican immigrants and all of the other dependents who use Obamacare and cannot/refuse to pay for it. Obamacare money will be taken from your family to support the medical care and maintenance of these people, which will buy Democrat votes forever.
 
Twenty years before anyone knew who Obama was IBM was shipping all their jobs to India. So IBM didn't need Obamacare to be awful, all they needed to do was continue to be the horrible assholes that they already are.

My mom and dad both had great careers there and great med retirement benefits until this new "law of the land" called Obama care. Now they have been pushed onto Medicare. Thanks Obama.
 
If you are a middle income family or a young person, you have lost big time. Your purpose in Democrat political life is now to support Mexican immigrants and all of the other dependents who use Obamacare and cannot/refuse to pay for it. Obamacare money will be taken from your family to support the medical care and maintenance of these people, which will buy Democrat votes forever.

Sadly I think you are correct. This may be the end of any viable Republican party. I think the Dem's have finally won for good.
 
My mom and dad both had great careers there and great med retirement benefits until this new "law of the land" called Obama care. Now they have been pushed onto Medicare. Thanks Obama.

I hate to tell you this, Sawyer, but your parents weren't the victims of Obama, but of the direction that IBM set in motion a very long time ago.
 
Just a coincidence that IBM, UPS and others all did this as Obama care comes on line huh.
Actually yes, that is what I think. They've all been wanting to, but needed the PR cover, and then along comes Obamacare. . . . perfect. Better though that it happens with Obamacare starting than that they dump retirees with no Obamacare.
 
Just a coincidence that IBM, UPS and others all did this as Obama care comes on line huh.

A lot of them said they were going to and then actually rolled that back.
 
Actually yes, that is what I think. They've all been wanting to, but needed the PR cover, and then along comes Obamacare. . . . perfect. Better though that it happens with Obamacare starting than that they dump retirees with no Obamacare.

Well yes and no. As I said earlier obamacare is having unintended consequences that those wacky right wingers warned us about, they told us this exact thing would happen so are the consequences really unintended? Good article on this if you are interested. I have to get busy in my saw mill now though, lunch is over. I enjoyed our conversation.:)

Obamacare Unleashes Benefit Changes From Companies - Bloomberg
 
Okay...from reading the article I would have to say that this phenomenon is not caused by Obamacare, but its effects are expected to increase because of Obamacare.

1. Health care providers are turning to this practice because more and more people are not paying for their health care and the provider needs to get paid somehow. Requiring payment in advance sounds to me like a good way to do that.

2. The patients are getting hammered because they don't have the ready cash to pay for the medical care up to their deductible at one whack.

3. Obamacare enters the mix because many of the available plans on the exchanges are high deductible-low premium plans. As more people buy insurance and more providers demand payment up front, more people will not be able buy heath care even if they do have the insurance.

4. Employers are also in the mix to some extent...at least the ones who offer health insurance coverage to their employees or the ones who stop offering health insurance coverage and their employees move to the high deductible exchange plans. Employers are increasingly going to higher deductible plans to reduce their costs...and their employee's costs, reducing hours to not be required to provide insurance coverage or just not offering coverage anymore. Their employees will run into the same problems when they go to a doctor who requires payment up front...and if they don't have the ready cash.

It's not a good situation for those who are unprepared for it, but there will always be some people who think ahead, put some money away or reduce their need to go to the doctor. Others will just go to the ER when their kids have the sniffles.
 
Actually yes, that is what I think. They've all been wanting to, but needed the PR cover, and then along comes Obamacare. . . . perfect. Better though that it happens with Obamacare starting than that they dump retirees with no Obamacare.

All it requires for that PR to work is for no one to know that IBM turned horrible roughly around 1984. So unless Obama is a cyborg time traveler I'm going to have to eliminate him from the list of usual suspects.

Hey, did you get that? Three pop culture references in one post.
 
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All it requires for that PR to work is for no one to know that IBM turned horrible roughly around 1985. So unless Obama is a cyborg time traveler I'm going to have to eliminate him from the list of usual suspects.

Hey, did you get that? Two pop culture references in one post.
Yep, that's about when things like annual bonuses went away, and pay freezes and such. Being the guru, my ex- was excluded from much of the pain til about '92, but we saw it coming.
 
Yep, that's about when things like annual bonuses went away, and pay freezes and such. Being the guru, my ex- was excluded from much of the pain til about '92, but we saw it coming.

Don't forget Family Day, but that inclusion is probably superfluous at this point.
 
Don't forget Family Day, but that observation is probably superfluous at this point.
We didn't need to have that so much. In Boise, all the IBMers which were few, lived in the same neighborhood. It was a lot like EDS in Plano with my uncle and his co-workers, except EDS was on a much larger scale taking up blocks and blocks of neighborhoods.
 
We didn't need to have that so much. In Boise, all the IBMers which were few, lived in the same neighborhood. It was a lot like EDS in Plano with my uncle and his co-workers, except EDS was on a much larger scale taking up blocks and blocks of neighborhoods.

Can't speak for Idaho, but in Vermont Family Day was actually a pretty big deal. Good for morale. But at IBM morale left the stage around the same time as Betamax.
 
Okay...from reading the article I would have to say that this phenomenon is not caused by Obamacare, but its effects are expected to increase because of Obamacare.

1. Health care providers are turning to this practice because more and more people are not paying for their health care and the provider needs to get paid somehow. Requiring payment in advance sounds to me like a good way to do that.

2. The patients are getting hammered because they don't have the ready cash to pay for the medical care up to their deductible at one whack.

3. Obamacare enters the mix because many of the available plans on the exchanges are high deductible-low premium plans. As more people buy insurance and more providers demand payment up front, more people will not be able buy heath care even if they do have the insurance.

4. Employers are also in the mix to some extent...at least the ones who offer health insurance coverage to their employees or the ones who stop offering health insurance coverage and their employees move to the high deductible exchange plans. Employers are increasingly going to higher deductible plans to reduce their costs...and their employee's costs, reducing hours to not be required to provide insurance coverage or just not offering coverage anymore. Their employees will run into the same problems when they go to a doctor who requires payment up front...and if they don't have the ready cash.

It's not a good situation for those who are unprepared for it, but there will always be some people who think ahead, put some money away or reduce their need to go to the doctor. Others will just go to the ER when their kids have the sniffles.

you are going to have a lot of pissed off the Obama voters which most are miss or uniformed that will sign up pay that one monthly premium and go to the doctor demanding treatment to find out it will cost them a few thousand to get that treatment
 
you are going to have a lot of pissed off the Obama voters which most are miss or uniformed that will sign up pay that one monthly premium and go to the doctor demanding treatment to find out it will cost them a few thousand to get that treatment

Probably...as well as a bunch of others who didn't vote for Obama but got their exchange insurance because, "It's the law".
 
My point was that this phenomenon is not new, let alone actually caused by the PPACA.

What else is new. If we wanted to solve most of our current problems we would have universal health care. The common theme you'll find from us wacky liberals is not that the PPACA solves everything but that it's better than what existed before it.

Yes, I agreed twice to this 'nothing new' point of 'pay up front'. But you failed to address my supposition that 'MANY of those uninsured were so due to inability to afford coverage. Now they must come up with premium, co-pay AND deductible the sum of which they couldn't afford prior' unless the platitude 'it's better than what existed before it' was meant as meaningful response. If so, I'm still confused as folks couldn't afford MEDICAL care before PPACA and considering my supposition the will not be able to afford MEDICAL care (premiums, co-pays and deductible) after PPACA...as health care (read insurance) doesn't heal anyone...
 
Yes, I agreed twice to this 'nothing new' point of 'pay up front'. But you failed to address my supposition that 'MANY of those uninsured were so due to inability to afford coverage. Now they must come up with premium, co-pay AND deductible the sum of which they couldn't afford prior' unless the platitude 'it's better than what existed before it' was meant as meaningful response. If so, I'm still confused as folks couldn't afford MEDICAL care before PPACA and considering my supposition the will not be able to afford MEDICAL care (premiums, co-pays and deductible) after PPACA...as health care (read insurance) doesn't heal anyone...

You say you've already agreed to this twice, yet you continue with the idea that "now" "many" must pay the deductible up front. I'm confused about what point you're making.
 
You say you've already agreed to this twice, yet you continue with the idea that "now" "many" must pay the deductible up front. I'm confused about what point you're making.

The point is that those who were paying premiums, co-pays and deductible before could then, can now (pre/post PPACA) which is what I agree to. But those who were uninsured pre-PPACA and are now able to afford PPACA via subsidies won't only have to afford premiums but also these co-pays AND deductible prior to medical care. If they couldn't afford only the premium pre-PPACA how are they going to now afford all three as co-pays/deductibles are not subsidized? Considering this what's changed for them?...they have insurance but cannot afford use it?
 
The point is that those who were paying premiums, co-pays and deductible before could then, can now (pre/post PPACA) which is what I agree to. But those who were uninsured pre-PPACA and are now able to afford PPACA via subsidies won't only have to afford premiums but also these co-pays AND deductible prior to medical care. If they couldn't afford only the premium pre-PPACA how are they going to now afford all three as co-pays/deductibles are not subsidized? Considering this what's changed for them?...they have insurance but cannot afford use it?

Yeah...Obamacare is not going to do the people you are talking about a bit of good. On the other hand, this pay-up-front trend will give Obama and the liberals a good excuse for why Obamacare is screwing people up. It's all those greedy doctor's fault.

(I think I heard that from a liberal in this thread already)
 
Are you posting this as if it's bad news? That would be good news. Emergency rooms are ridiculously over-used. If people have to pay up in advance, they'll make an appointment with their doctor -- or, YIKES! get a family doctor.

I've had the misfortune of having to use the ER on four occasions in the last six years...for genuine pain-threshhold-ten emergencies. Somebody's there because his foot cast itches...a kid with a sore throat who's running around the waiting area...dozens of people looking just fine patiently waiting for ER care. More convenient at night is my guess. That's simply GOT to change.

Large deductibles are a good thing.

Sooooo.. you are just admitting that the AFFORDABLE Care Act was no such thing?
 
Sooooo.. you are just admitting that the AFFORDABLE Care Act was no such thing?

I can't help what they named the damned thing. Everyone can get insurance. That's what I like about it. *shrug*

'Course I'm used to paying my way...
 
Are you posting this as if it's bad news? That would be good news. Emergency rooms are ridiculously over-used. If people have to pay up in advance, they'll make an appointment with their doctor -- or, YIKES! get a family doctor.

I've had the misfortune of having to use the ER on four occasions in the last six years...for genuine pain-threshhold-ten emergencies. Somebody's there because his foot cast itches...a kid with a sore throat who's running around the waiting area...dozens of people looking just fine patiently waiting for ER care. More convenient at night is my guess. That's simply GOT to change.

Large deductibles are a good thing.

Look at it this way Maggie:

A woman who works two part time jobs makes $15,000 annually. Because of the ACA she gets bronze health insurance with, say, a $5000 deductible.

This woman gets the flu, but the doctor wants payment up front for the visit. She doesn't have the money to pay the doctor.

Now tell me how this is any different than her life before Obamacare?
 
I can't help what they named the damned thing. Everyone can get insurance. That's what I like about it. *shrug*

'Course I'm used to paying my way...


Everyone has insurance, less people get care. It's a great system....
 
Every Doctor that I've ever had an appt. with has had their office people ask for my copay up front, when I show up.

Maybe I'm a little short. I could ask to slide, maybe four days or so.

Before I had insurance, back in the '80s, I had to pay the real (unisured) Doctor visit fee. My eyebrows would be way up.

The Affordable Health care law starts in two months. How damn many videos of people w/o their copay (under the insurance plan that they already have) are we going to have to watch?

I'll be keeping count.
 
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