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Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede[W:236]

Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

here's one:




also:



it shows up in checkout and they can even verify the balance on request for EBT card holders

And that expresses a claim that Walmart is a "hapless victim" how?

Clearly, you've never run a business and/or dealt with denying services to someone, particularly someone who believes they are "entitled". Walmart made a business decision based on the situation at hand.

From the start, I've simply indicated quite plainly, that the only criminal culprits in this matter are the EBT cardholders who knew full well they didn't have the buying power yet went into a legal business, presented a legal form of tender, and left the store knowing their transaction was fraudulent on their part.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

What is plain and simple is that Walmart and the people who made those purchases are equally culpable. Both parties knew that the cards had limits and that a glitch caused those limits to be lifted. Both parties conspired to defraud the government knowing the aforementioned facts. The only difference is that Walmart knew there were procedures to follow but chose to enable and encourage fraud instead. The best you can say for Walmart is that they were too lazy to call Xerox and didn't want to decline sales. Doesn't make them any less guilty.
I agree Walmart is to share in the blame. They should have set a $50, or $100 limit, with those having mitigating circumstances the individual call to Xerox(?). Now for mitigating circumstances, I have know individuals who will do most of their month's shopping at one time, who had no personal transportation. They would take a taxi to the store, buy their limit, then take a taxi home. It would be unfair to limit such people to the $50 or $100 if they had more. These same people would walk to the nearest store for bread, milk, etc, that had shorter shelf lives. about once a week.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Ah yes, let's cheer the apologists for incompetence at XEROX and the criminality of the EBT card holders. Poor babies, big bad WalMart made them steal.

Those who used their cards and exceeded their limits should simply not have anything on their cards for the rest of the month. Better hope they got enough.

But WalMart deserves some of the blame here and would get off pretty much scotfree without forcing them to suck up the costs of anything over those people's limits.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Nonsense.

Please explain for everyone how WalMart accesses the available balance on these cards for each customer who enters their stores and presents the card for payment.

Please tell us the reaction of liberals if WalMart had refused to accept EBT cards from poor Americans.

As I said previously, the only people who had direct knowledge of their available balance and knew beyond any doubt that they were cheating and stealing were the people who chose to use the cards fraudulently, knowing well that they were cheating the system and stealing.

Nobody, no company, forces the immoral and dishonest to be criminal - they choose that path themselves, regardless of how many bleeding heart apologists on the left wish to excuse their immorality and dishonesty.
I agree with you, but Walmart still should have been more proactive on the situation. I simple in-store announcement of a reasonable limit would have kept this all under control.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Napoleon said:
According to the Louisiana Department of Children And Family Services, there are clear procedures for stores to contact Xerox for purchase authorization if the EBT system fails.
Do you understand the magnitude of the problem and the slow response time to address every customer?


Napoleon said:
I'm a liberal and I was in a grocery store when this happened. They made an announcement saying that no EBT purchases would be allowed until the system was restored. My reaction was that they made the right call.
I agree that it was the better call than unlimited use. Would you agree a $50 or $100 limit would have been sufficient? Still, CJ's point is very valid. Liberals slam Walmart every chance they get. I see it as them trying to avoid bad publicity, but it obviously backfired.


Napoleon said:
Oh please. Its not like Walmart was ignorant of what was going on. They knew exactly what was happening and they chose to allow it.
Are you being an apologist for unethical people?

Stop a moment and listen to your self!
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Those who used their cards and exceeded their limits should simply not have anything on their cards for the rest of the month. Better hope they got enough.

But WalMart deserves some of the blame here and would get off pretty much scotfree without forcing them to suck up the costs of anything over those people's limits.

I suppose if a person deposits a bogus or NSF check in an ATM and takes out cash should have their theft covered by the bank, right? Why hold criminals responsible for their crimes when someone with deeper pockets can be blamed and foot the bill, right?
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

The EBT glitch was a complete outage. These two Walmart locations (and apparently none anywhere else) decided to ring up the items anyway despite the fact they couldn't verify the EBT cards had funds, or that the EBT cards were even valid. They would have the EBT card info and purchase amounts to send through Xerox once the outage was over.

As it happens, my bank has been through the same thing. Their computers went down and if you tried using the card the retailer could not get an approval through the system. So the retailer would have no idea whether I had funds available to use my debit card or even if my debit card was valid. Pretty much the exact same scenario. I actually tried using my debit card while the computers were down. You know what didn't happen? The retailer did not let me buy as much as I wanted because they couldn't determine that I was unable to pay it with debit. That would be crazy. Instead, without an approval on my debit card transaction they choose to require payment using something they could get an approval on, or you could simply not buy the goods. I had a credit card through a different bank with me so just charged it to that. I also could have used cash. If I had been unable to pay for my items I'd have left the store without them.

Why we expect a government program to work differently than a non-government bank I do not understand.
I've been out of state travelling in the past and had a few times when my checking account wasn't available at an ATM. The ATM stated such, and limited me to a $100 withdrawal. Stuff like this isn't completely fair, but limits possible abuse.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

I agree with you, but Walmart still should have been more proactive on the situation. I simple in-store announcement of a reasonable limit would have kept this all under control.

Fair enough - but ever seen a stampede scene on what I think America calls Black Friday? Even if Walmart looses out on some product it's far better for them corporately and safety wise to simply process sales that the cards accept. Surely, XEROX or whomever manages the program could have put a freeze on the system so that no card payments could be accepted. In such a case, Walmart staff would simply be able to say sorry, your card's not being accepted. By putting the onus on Walmart, you're forcing them to say even though the card is being accepted, they won't accept it. That's making them responsible for a problem they didn't cause or contribute to.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

I can assure you it's a regular occurance. I will say it was much more common when they were actual "stamps" but still with the ebt card, it happens frequently. I know people who do it and I have been approached numerous times to do it. Some people would rather have cash than food, especially when they know they can get free food at a shelter, numerous food banks ( which will provide a week or two of groceries), or even some churches if they are hungry. They know the game and it's not hard to play or find people who want to buy $100 worth of groceries for $50.
I know it's true as well.

I have known people on food stamps that eat better than i do, in that they can buy the best cuts of meat, and "best" other products, when i am budgeting on cash only. Many of these same people I know who do know how to cook on a budget, have done just that. Sold their benefits to others.
 
Yep, I have to agree.

And as far as the EBT card holders that took advantage of this glitch, they should have their EBT docked until they've paid back what they've stolen.
I agree. If it's just a little off, i say no penalty other than taking the amount off the next issue. If it is excessive... penalize them hard. Afterall, at this point, it becomes a first degree crime.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

I suppose if a person deposits a bogus or NSF check in an ATM and takes out cash should have their theft covered by the bank, right? Why hold criminals responsible for their crimes when someone with deeper pockets can be blamed and foot the bill, right?

The ATM doesn't know that the check is bogus or couldn't be covered, these WalMarts did. If a bank teller accepts and accredits a check written in crayon on the back of a cardboard box and tries to charge whoever the check is supposedly from for that amount, then yes, the bank should be held responsible because they should have known better. If someone is trying to deposit a $750M check from the IRS or some other government source, then a bank should not accredit that account with that money until the check is verified. Heck, the banks I do business with have to verify any check over either $2K or $3K before they accredit it to your account. WalMart acted like a bank that knew the check was bogus and accredited it anyway.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Fair enough - but ever seen a stampede scene on what I think America calls Black Friday? Even if Walmart looses out on some product it's far better for them corporately and safety wise to simply process sales that the cards accept. Surely, XEROX or whomever manages the program could have put a freeze on the system so that no card payments could be accepted. In such a case, Walmart staff would simply be able to say sorry, your card's not being accepted. By putting the onus on Walmart, you're forcing them to say even though the card is being accepted, they won't accept it. That's making them responsible for a problem they didn't cause or contribute to.

No it isn't, as every single other WalMart we know of in the country proved. In fact, all the other stores in the country proved that there wasn't a serious problem in simply either denying use of the cards or limiting how much could be purchased.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

it shows up in checkout and they can even verify the balance on request for EBT card holders
Yeh, right...

With thousands, if not millions of other transactions going on, what are the chances of the phone lines not having a huge wait, if you can even get through?

the contact line is meant for store or local disruptions. Not nationwide disruptions.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Yeh, right...

With thousands, if not millions of other transactions going on, what are the chances of the phone lines not having a huge wait, if you can even get through?

the contact line is meant for store or local disruptions. Not nationwide disruptions.

Actually, no. There are procedures put into place to cover outages like this that are supposed to be followed until contact can be made. The same ones that 99% of the other stores affected by this problem followed, including most of the other WalMarts in our nation.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

And that expresses a claim that Walmart is a "hapless victim" how?

You're saying they have no choice but to allow such to occur

Clearly, you've never run a business and/or dealt with denying services to someone, particularly someone who believes they are "entitled". Walmart made a business decision based on the situation at hand.

And they could have easily decided not to. That's a big part of personal responsibility, but you seem your concept of such only works one way

From the start, I've simply indicated quite plainly, that the only criminal culprits in this matter are the EBT cardholders who knew full well they didn't have the buying power yet went into a legal business, presented a legal form of tender, and left the store knowing their transaction was fraudulent on their part.

As has been pointed out to you numerous times already, walmart knew they didn't have the buying power either. Hence the reason the store manager became concerned and contacted corporate, EBT cards do not operate like checking accounts. They operate like rechargeable gift cards, with a balance that is easily referenced through the system and teller, like ANY OTHER GIFT CARD. And knowing full well the system was defunct, walmart allowed these purchases to go through.

When we know a similar issue would not be handled the same way dealing with gift cards. here the difference was the govt was perceived to be on the hook, so both parties would do nothing but gain from the transactions
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

I suppose if a person deposits a bogus or NSF check in an ATM and takes out cash should have their theft covered by the bank, right? Why hold criminals responsible for their crimes when someone with deeper pockets can be blamed and foot the bill, right?

As I JUST POINTED OUT TO YOU a balance is easily referencable through the system and walmart was operating within the full knowledge that this error was occurring. The ATM does not in the above scenario. And in your above scenario the bank would be granting it's funds, in the walmart case, they were granting state funds
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Yeh, right...

With thousands, if not millions of other transactions going on, what are the chances of the phone lines not having a huge wait, if you can even get through?

the contact line is meant for store or local disruptions. Not nationwide disruptions.

dude, it states in the story the system was showing no limit. This is the issue that made management contact corporate. because anyone with a months experience as a teller at Walmart knows EBT cards carry a balance. It's clear they had full knowledge, due to their actions to remedy it, that the system was not working properly

lol@ "taking personal responsibility seriously", then trying to minimize personal responsibility
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Actually, no. There are procedures put into place to cover outages like this that are supposed to be followed until contact can be made. The same ones that 99% of the other stores affected by this problem followed, including most of the other WalMarts in our nation.
Then I assume you have a link handy?
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

As I JUST POINTED OUT TO YOU a balance is easily referencable through the system and walmart was operating within the full knowledge that this error was occurring. The ATM does not in the above scenario. And in your above scenario the bank would be granting it's funds, in the walmart case, they were granting state funds
Yes, and the account holder bets debited. Even if it becomes an overdraft.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

dude, it states in the story the system was showing no limit. This is the issue that made management contact corporate. because anyone with a months experience as a teller at Walmart knows EBT cards carry a balance. It's clear they had full knowledge, due to their actions to remedy it, that the system was not working properly

lol@ "taking personal responsibility seriously", then trying to minimize personal responsibility
The EBT card is suppose to be treated like a debit card, right? Isn't that what Walmart did? If you overdraft a debit card, the account holder is responsible. Not the retailer.

I think the law will be on Walmarts side on this.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Then I assume you have a link handy?

Walmart: Food stamps spree caused by Xerox - CSMonitor.com

Xerox corporate spokesman Bill McKee provided a written company statement saying that Xerox has a "documented process for retailers like Wal-Mart to follow in response to EBT outages."

Next step on food stamp fraud up to Wal-Mart, local police say | NOLA.com

Xerox, a contractor in charge of EBT Cards, has an emergency backup procedure in place that allows retailers to call Xerox and authorize up to $50 in purchases per recipient during such outages.

Would you like more?

It appears that it will most likely be WalMart who eats the cost, however they could go after those who overspent their limits. Now, it is not likely that WalMart would do this since WalMart doesn't generally prosecute attempted shoplifting, and this simply wouldn't look good for WalMart. In fact, the best thing they could do is eat the costs and claim that it helped people.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Walmart: Food stamps spree caused by Xerox - CSMonitor.com



Next step on food stamp fraud up to Wal-Mart, local police say | NOLA.com



Would you like more?

It appears that it will most likely be WalMart who eats the cost, however they could go after those who overspent their limits. Now, it is not likely that WalMart would do this since WalMart doesn't generally prosecute attempted shoplifting, and this simply wouldn't look good for WalMart. In fact, the best thing they could do is eat the costs and claim that it helped people.

Please...

I want details. not incomplete dribble from a news outlet and "sources say..."

If the system is down, those are the procedures to follow. That all goes out the window when the system allows the transaction.

I challenge you to show me otherwise. Show me the actual agreement, else be tagged as a lemming.

The system allowed the purchases... Right... with no manual intervention... right...
 
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Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Do you understand the magnitude of the problem and the slow response time to address every customer?

Its a better business decision than just processing the sales of people you know probably cannot really pay for a purchase. Do you think Walmart would have done this had it been a Visa credit card glitch instead?

I agree that it was the better call than unlimited use. Would you agree a $50 or $100 limit would have been sufficient? Still, CJ's point is very valid. Liberals slam Walmart every chance they get. I see it as them trying to avoid bad publicity, but it obviously backfired.

If I were a business owner, I wouldn't have even given them a $50-$100 pass nor would I expect the taxpayers to pay the price for my own stupidity in allowing such transactions.

Are you being an apologist for unethical people? Stop a moment and listen to your self!

As I said before, I think they are equally culpable.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Please...

I want details. not incomplete dribble from a news outlet and "sources say..."

If the system is down, those are the procedures to follow. That all goes out the window when the system allows the transaction.

I challenge you to show me otherwise. Show me the actual agreement, else be tagged as a lemming.

Louisiana Official: Walmart Responsible To Pay For EBT Glitch Shopping Spree « CBS Houston

You can live in denial, but it has already been determined. They knew the procedure and chose not to follow it. It isn't hard to figure out that the procedure is as is being reported since most people including myself, witnessed the evidence on the day of the system problem. WalMart is on the hook.
 
Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

Yes, and the account holder bets debited. Even if it becomes an overdraft.

huh, you can't overdraft a gift card?
 
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