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Thread: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede[W:236]

  1. #341
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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    99%?

    Are you making that up, or do you have evidence?
    There is no evidence to the contrary. We didn't see or hear about this happening anywhere else, and given our information age, it's a pretty good bet it would have came out by now.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  2. #342
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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Funny thing is, it wasn't just the two Walmart stores that did such things. But... Walmart is every liberal media pundits punching bag...
    Show the other stores. I know what stores in my area did, including Sprouts and CVS. They simply put up signs saying there was an EBT system failure and they couldn't accept the cards.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  3. #343
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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The ATM doesn't know that the check is bogus or couldn't be covered, these WalMarts did. If a bank teller accepts and accredits a check written in crayon on the back of a cardboard box and tries to charge whoever the check is supposedly from for that amount, then yes, the bank should be held responsible because they should have known better. If someone is trying to deposit a $750M check from the IRS or some other government source, then a bank should not accredit that account with that money until the check is verified. Heck, the banks I do business with have to verify any check over either $2K or $3K before they accredit it to your account. WalMart acted like a bank that knew the check was bogus and accredited it anyway.
    Two points:

    1. So you believe that Walmart should have access to the personal information of all EBT customers so they know ahead of time what each EBT customer's personal available balance is at any given time before they process a sale. You must be one of those lemmings who sees no problem with the proliferation of access online to the personal information of citizens.

    2. Perhaps you're not aware, but if a customer brings in a check made out in crayon on the back of a cardboard box, as long as it has the proper banking information related to bank/branch/account number it is legal tender and must be honored. You are not required to use a bank's checks to write a check. At least not in advanced countries like Canada. But let's extend it - perhaps you're aware that banks are accepting checks electronically now, using smartphone apps. According to your logic, the bank must eat the lose for accepting the check even though the bank did nothing illegal or fraudulent - it was the customer who committed the crime.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    99%?

    Are you making that up, or do you have evidence?
    Unless you want to argue that there are fewer than 198 other stores in the 17 states affected, 99% is an EXTREMELY conservative number.

  5. #345
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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    A little more info.

    7 CFR 274.12 - Electronic Benefit Transfer issuance system approval standards. | Code of Federal Regulations | LII / Legal Information Institute

    Relevant part:

    If authorization cannot be obtained before or at the time of purchase, the retailer assumes the risk for sufficient benefits being available in the household's account.
    under this section

    (g) Retailer participation. (1); under the first subsection here, (i), near the bottom of the paragraph.
    Am I wrong?

    Authorization was approved, wasn't it?

    Thanks for proving my point.

  6. #346
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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Two points:

    1. So you believe that Walmart should have access to the personal information of all EBT customers so they know ahead of time what each EBT customer's personal available balance is at any given time before they process a sale. You must be one of those lemmings who sees no problem with the proliferation of access online to the personal information of citizens.

    2. Perhaps you're not aware, but if a customer brings in a check made out in crayon on the back of a cardboard box, as long as it has the proper banking information related to bank/branch/account number it is legal tender and must be honored. You are not required to use a bank's checks to write a check. At least not in advanced countries like Canada. But let's extend it - perhaps you're aware that banks are accepting checks electronically now, using smartphone apps. According to your logic, the bank must eat the lose for accepting the check even though the bank did nothing illegal or fraudulent - it was the customer who committed the crime.
    First of all, allowing access to view EBT account balances does not require access to any other personal information and it is necessary for the transaction.

    Second of all, if the bank accepts the "check" without verifying it, then the bank should be held responsible because the chances are pretty good that it isn't real. Now, it could be found out later that it is in fact real. But being suspicious, it is not required that the bank accept it first and authorize payment/credit without verifying it is real.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #347
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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    You're saying they have no choice but to allow such to occur



    And they could have easily decided not to. That's a big part of personal responsibility, but you seem your concept of such only works one way



    As has been pointed out to you numerous times already, walmart knew they didn't have the buying power either. Hence the reason the store manager became concerned and contacted corporate, EBT cards do not operate like checking accounts. They operate like rechargeable gift cards, with a balance that is easily referenced through the system and teller, like ANY OTHER GIFT CARD. And knowing full well the system was defunct, walmart allowed these purchases to go through.

    When we know a similar issue would not be handled the same way dealing with gift cards. here the difference was the govt was perceived to be on the hook, so both parties would do nothing but gain from the transactions
    Correction, I didn't say they had no choice, I said the choice they made was reasonable and made good business sense. They had the choice to shut off the lights and close the doors too.

    If it comes to it, we'll see what a court has to say about the onus on Walmart and whether they acted reasonably. It wouldn't suprise me in the slightest if they simply accepted payment up to the balance limit of any customer who fraudulently overused their card in the store and wrote off any loses.

    Any bets on whether the Obama administration will hold the thieves accountable either legally or through reduced to cancelled benefits going forward?

    Perhaps another reason why big government is ill equipped to manage life.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  8. #348
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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Am I wrong?

    Authorization was approved, wasn't it?
    No, it wasn't. Not by the EBT system. The government can show that WalMart, these WalMarts in particular knew that there was a problem with the EBT system itself and that this problem very likely would cause problems that would end up with incorrect amounts on the EBT cards being authorized. The purchases themselves do not get truly authorized til later. And unless the retailer could show that the system was faulty in a way that they couldn't identify (which we know is not the case here) then they have every right to hold the retailer (in this case these two WalMarts) responsible for those transactions.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #349
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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    As I JUST POINTED OUT TO YOU a balance is easily referencable through the system and walmart was operating within the full knowledge that this error was occurring. The ATM does not in the above scenario. And in your above scenario the bank would be granting it's funds, in the walmart case, they were granting state funds
    That's news to me - you're saying that Walmart had easy reference to the available balance through the system - is that your contention? If so, why didn't XEROX close down the system if there was an error? Why was it still accepting cards and presumably balance enquiries as you claim when the system had a problem. Never heard of such a system failure before where the system accepts the card as valid but can't shut down or declare all cards invalid until the system is fixed.

    Since you seem to have all the answers and a lock on all the motives, do you know if XEROX knew of the problem and contacted the administration asking if they should shut the system down completely until it was fixed and the administration official said no, keep approving the sales because people need to be able to buy things? Could it possibly be that the administration didn't want to have a large problem of no access to their new electronic payment program as a public relations nightmare?

    Regardless of what happened, the onus still remains on the principals in the matter - the dishonest thieves who continued to rack up sales they didn't deserve.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  10. #350
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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Louisiana Official: Walmart Responsible To Pay For EBT Glitch Shopping Spree CBS Houston

    You can live in denial, but it has already been determined. They knew the procedure and chose not to follow it. It isn't hard to figure out that the procedure is as is being reported since most people including myself, witnessed the evidence on the day of the system problem. WalMart is on the hook.
    Of course a "Louisiana official" is going to cover their ass and say it's all Walmart's fault. I'd fall flat on the floor if a government stooge ever took responsibility for anything.

    Let's see what a court says, if it ever gets there.
    Last edited by CanadaJohn; 10-16-13 at 05:32 PM.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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