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Thread: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede[W:236]

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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Nonsense. Please explain for everyone how WalMart accesses the available balance on these cards for each customer who enters their stores and presents the card for payment.
    According to the Louisiana Department of Children And Family Services, there are clear procedures for stores to contact Xerox for purchase authorization if the EBT system fails.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Please tell us the reaction of liberals if WalMart had refused to accept EBT cards from poor Americans.
    I'm a liberal and I was in a grocery store when this happened. They made an announcement saying that no EBT purchases would be allowed until the system was restored. My reaction was that they made the right call.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    As I said previously, the only people who had direct knowledge of their available balance and knew beyond any doubt that they were cheating and stealing were the people who chose to use the cards fraudulently, knowing well that they were cheating the system and stealing.
    Oh please. Its not like Walmart was ignorant of what was going on. They knew exactly what was happening and they chose to allow it.

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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Nonsense.

    Please explain for everyone how WalMart accesses the available balance on these cards for each customer who enters their stores and presents the card for payment.

    Please tell us the reaction of liberals if WalMart had refused to accept EBT cards from poor Americans.

    As I said previously, the only people who had direct knowledge of their available balance and knew beyond any doubt that they were cheating and stealing were the people who chose to use the cards fraudulently, knowing well that they were cheating the system and stealing.

    Nobody, no company, forces the immoral and dishonest to be criminal - they choose that path themselves, regardless of how many bleeding heart apologists on the left wish to excuse their immorality and dishonesty.
    Well said, CJ.

    The disturbing part of this is that they don't feel sorry or guilty about what they are doing...they celebrate their success! This Country didn't used to be that way...what has happened to people to prompt this type of behavior?

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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    1. WalMart doesn't run the system, the government does - if there's a problem with the system, the owner/operator of the system is responsible for monitoring the system and closing it down if problems arise. Do you think VISA has such problems with their credit card system? Do you think they don't know when someone is trying to spend more than their limit allows? I don't know the details related to how this glitch was discovered or how WalMart attempted to notify the government agency in control, but I can understand WalMart saying that they will accept any method of payment that is accepted at source. To do otherwise is to set themselves up for lawsuits and other actions. For all WalMart knows, Obama may have decided in his capacity as King to eliminate all EBT spending limits during the government shutdown.

    2. To think a $trillion corporation like WalMart pursues fraudulent sales as a means of "personal gain" is just nonsense designed to excuse the real criminals in the matter, those who knowingly overspent what they knew was their spending limit. I'll bet you those with the cards who got more than they should have were spreading the news around the neighborhood that everyone could get free stuff if they hurried and the immoral, criminal elements among them rushed to the store to get what they could in an attempt at "legal looting".

    3. An easy way for WalMart to be held accountable, is for those who stole from the government to return the goods and have them refunded under the card they were fraudulently purchased under. You'll have a hard time convincing any honest person that WalMart conspired with criminals to purposely defraud the government.
    The EBT glitch was a complete outage. These two Walmart locations (and apparently none anywhere else) decided to ring up the items anyway despite the fact they couldn't verify the EBT cards had funds, or that the EBT cards were even valid. They would have the EBT card info and purchase amounts to send through Xerox once the outage was over.

    As it happens, my bank has been through the same thing. Their computers went down and if you tried using the card the retailer could not get an approval through the system. So the retailer would have no idea whether I had funds available to use my debit card or even if my debit card was valid. Pretty much the exact same scenario. I actually tried using my debit card while the computers were down. You know what didn't happen? The retailer did not let me buy as much as I wanted because they couldn't determine that I was unable to pay it with debit. That would be crazy. Instead, without an approval on my debit card transaction they choose to require payment using something they could get an approval on, or you could simply not buy the goods. I had a credit card through a different bank with me so just charged it to that. I also could have used cash. If I had been unable to pay for my items I'd have left the store without them.

    Why we expect a government program to work differently than a non-government bank I do not understand.

  4. #264
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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I argued against what you posted - I can imagine that you'd be a little uncomfortable defending what you posted, so you resort to attacking me and not the message.
    Imagine what you like. If I was an eighth-grade teacher and had to illustrate a strawman argument to a slow student, your reply would do nicely. When your reply begins with, "I bet you are..." you've abandoned reasoned debate and demonstrated intellectual laziness or intellectual dishonesty or intellectual inadequacy (if not all three).

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    WalMart is a $trillion corporation with virtually unlimited sales in all their locations. To suggest that Walmart would conspire to make a few bucks in this way is nonsense and a phony charge.
    WalMart is a notoriously bad corporate citizen. The name has become a verb, as in, "Stores have been closed since downtown was walmarted." Those people who looted the system were motivated by opportunistic greed, as was WalMart when they happily rang up impossible overages on those cards. And don't pretend they had no choice, several posters here have cited stores putting up signs saying they can't accept those cards untill the system was back up.
    'Course, those stores were good citizens.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    It's plain and simple to those who aren't apologists for the criminal elements of society
    Ohferchristsake.
    Fine, have your little display. No doubt you can hear the ghostly applause of dozens of lurkers who have the same simplistic disregard for reason and discourse. Easier and showier to build a nasty-looking strawman and annihilate him.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    - people saw an opportunity to steal and some dove right in - they should be rounded up, forced to return the goods - any goods that have been consumed or can't be returned become the financial responsibility of the thief - and those who spread the word around the community that they could use their assistance cards to steal from WalMart and the government should go to jail.
    See, that right there makes sense. I agree with that. Well, I doubt that anyone stole from WalMart - I'm sure they'll get paid because corporations aren't held to the same moral standards that individuals are. In fact, they'd probably resist your 'return' scenario but it sounds nice and cosy.
    "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid people. I meant that stupid people are generally Conservatives."
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    Re: Walmart shelves in Springhill, Mansfield, cleared in EBT glitch

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post
    American: one way or the other--and it really doesn't matter which way you look at this--Walmart had complete control over this. If you're a cowboy are you going to let that cattle do whatever it wants or are you going to be responsible for managing your responsibilities? This is no different than Black Friday and people running over one another to get to deals--it's the store's responsibility to manage the store and customer safety.

    Yep. I see it in rich people not wishing to pay their fair share of taxes and sending their money to off shore accounts. Dag gone rabid thieves.
    There is no "fair" share of taxes, get the **** over it. Anyone who doesn't try to minimize their tax burden is an idiot.
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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by Un biased View Post
    So how can someone can be obese but malnourished ( unless your talking about a poor diet ) . One cant be starving while someone is over weight actually that would be better for one to skip a meal it would add more years to ones life ( for a obese individual of course ) .
    Yes, I am talking about poor diet.

    Calories and nourishment are not the same thing. People on food stamps often don't have enough to get nourishing food, so they get junk in bulk instead. It's kind of hard to blame them.

    However, they are still going to be malnourished. And I can tell you from experience that even if you are eating enough calories, if you are malnourished, you will continue to be hungry, and you will also be quite ill.

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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    1)No, I pointed out your ignorant and sheltered existence doesn't serve as a proof here. And that if you want to validate the claim it is very easy

    2) So confident in your position you needed to validate yourself with something so inanely generalized to be meaningless

    people abuse the welfare system for all manner of reasons. Some have fake accounts, others are selling their benefits for drugs, etc

    Ugh, you haven't hung out in the ghetto much, huh?

    Who said everyone on welfare was lazy or that they abuse the system? The truth, much like with the subject matter of this thread, lays on both sides here: Some people need welfare and state assistance, others simply abuse it. Unfortunately the current system doesn't do a good job of weeding out the two.

    It's an easy source of revenue and welfare fraud or selling off your EBT isn't complicated. Honestly, you should get out more
    So once again, you have no evidence that this happens on any real scale.

    I've lived in places you wouldn't believe. I saw people, not political arguments.

    You still haven't answered my question. If these people could get food the easy way, why would they do it the hard way? The answer is, they wouldn't.

    And if they wouldn't do it, why would anyone with EBT try to make money that way? The answer is, they wouldn't.

    So even if you're right that there's some massive quantity of people doing this, all you've done is shoot your argument in the foot. You'd have just proved that large numbers of the starving poor are unable to even get assistance.

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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    So once again, you have no evidence that this happens on any real scale.

    I've lived in places you wouldn't believe. I saw people, not political arguments.
    lol ...

    You still haven't answered my question. If these people could get food the easy way, why would they do it the hard way? The answer is, they wouldn't.
    I did answer your question: despite your completely naive take on the situation, it isn't hard

    And if they wouldn't do it, why would anyone with EBT try to make money that way? The answer is, they wouldn't.
    because they don't actually need the food? Like, say, if they are collecting multiple benefits

    So even if you're right that there's some massive quantity of people doing this
    No one said massive, I said constantly. And yes, the fact that you can find multiple people selling them in front of any ghetto grocery store, and in the open, would more than fit that label

    all you've done is shoot your argument in the foot.
    I'm not sure you having a tantrum over the fact that someone called you out on not knowing what you speak of amounts to "shooting myself in the foot"

    You'd have just proved that large numbers of the starving poor are unable to even get assistance.
    What?

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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    lol ...

    I did answer your question: despite your completely naive take on the situation, it isn't hard

    because they don't actually need the food? Like, say, if they are collecting multiple benefits

    No one said massive, I said constantly. And yes, the fact that you can find multiple people selling them in front of any ghetto grocery store, and in the open, would more than fit that label

    I'm not sure you having a tantrum over the fact that someone called you out on not knowing what you speak of amounts to "shooting myself in the foot"

    What?
    *sigh* Ok. Slower this time.

    People who can afford food easily want to get in, out, and on with their lives. They certainly don't want to spend additional time acquiring something of unknown quality while risking possible repercussion if they could just go in and get it themselves and avoid all of that.

    Also, these can't possibly be people on EBT themselves. Free is better than reduced price to people who are in a pinch.

    So, if you are right, and this is happening "constantly" or whatever you want to call it, then you've just proven the American system leaves people without reasonable ability to eat. The only reason illegal markets ever flourish is because something is inaccessible through legal means.

    I could almost believe that, since we're talking about neighborhoods stricken with poverty.

    But man, I've been to places in this country that look like they've been bombed. Gotta say I've never seen this. Sounds like another "lazy parasites" meme to me.

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    Re: Food stamp glitch leads to Wal-Mart stampede

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    *sigh* Ok. Slower this time.

    People who can afford food easily want to get in, out, and on with their lives. They certainly don't want to spend additional time acquiring something of unknown quality while risking possible repercussion if they could just go in and get it themselves and avoid all of that.
    again, I understand what you are saying, but it simply isn't true and you need to get out more. Welfare fraud is not difficult, nor is there a high risk of getting caught. Seriously, how hard do you think it is to stand out in front of a grocery store for an hour to make 200 bucks? It's not like the cops are going to swoop in and arrest you. They have more important things to worry about.

    And reporting people to the welfare office is a complete waste of time


    Also, these can't possibly be people on EBT themselves. Free is better than reduced price to people who are in a pinch.
    because they are not in a pinch like you keep asserting

    So, if you are right, and this is happening "constantly" or whatever you want to call it, then you've just proven the American system leaves people without reasonable ability to eat. The only reason illegal markets ever flourish is because something is inaccessible through legal means.
    Or people like saving money on their groceries and it's an easy and well established way to game the system ...

    So, if you are right, and this is happening "constantly" or whatever you want to call it, then you've just proven the American system leaves people without reasonable ability to eat. The only reason illegal markets ever flourish is because something is inaccessible through legal means.

    I could almost believe that, since we're talking about neighborhoods stricken with poverty.
    That's because you likely haven't been to such places, or spent any significant time in them (besides to play ghetto at some hipster coffee house) . And being that I have been clear some people do need assistance, I am unsure how it can be a "parasite meme"

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