Cruz, Palin join protesters at WWII Memorial[W:793:1010:1190]

Re: Cruz, Palin join protesters at WWII Memorial

DiavoTheMiavo said:

So, I guess we should ignore the fact we are supposed to operate the government with a budget less than $1-Trillion a year.

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No, it means what I just said....Cut 1% of spending, and balance the damned budget...Why shouldn't we have a balanced budget? Everyone I know of has to do that, why shouldn't they?

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Kobie said:

1. Stop right there. There is no "collectivist political agenda" in the U.S. At least not one that has any traction in mainstream politics.

2. Holy crap. So now "dicators" are sole province of the "left."

Hitler was a right-wing dictator. So was Mussolini, so was Franco. Period, discussion over. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about. NONE.

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No thanks, I'll continue as I wish. You are not my leftist "dear leader", "fuhrer", "comrade chairman" or anything thing else to me.

Obamadon'tcare is not "collectivist"? Explain then how you can choose not to fall under it's control and remain an American citizen.

Hitler, Mussolini, Franc were leftists. Period. But the conversation can and will continue if people wish. It's always a leftist idea to place restrictions on free speech. Obama and others have considered and tried to do it against Rush so I understand why you feel entitled to place restrictions on others. That "damn constitution" got in their way though. It's in your way too.

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Kobie said:

I don't know if you've been paying attention, but the last about 20 pages of this thread have been me pointing out that no type of rhetoric is exclusive province of the "right" OR the "left."



Non sequitur, disqualified.



The last president we had with results was Clinton.



I'm going to guess you answer is "when the Republicans are back in control." I disagree, because I think the Republicans and Democrats are both terrible.

I don't know when the things you ask are going to happen. But I'll be damned if I'm going to sit there and let people like you claim that all of our problems are due to "leftism," because that's a steaming heap of bullsh*t.

You seem to be operating under the assumption that I'm some fan of Obama.

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Your opinion noted but obviously the following doesn't matter

Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey
Original Data Value

Series Id: LNS14000000
Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (Seas) Unemployment Rate
Labor force status: Unemployment rate
Type of data: Percent or rate
Age: 16 years and over
Years: 1980 to 2013

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2001 4.2 4.2 4.3 4.4 4.3 4.5 4.6 4.9 5.0 5.3 5.5 5.7
2002 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.9 6.0
2003 5.8 5.9 5.9 6.0 6.1 6.3 6.2 6.1 6.1 6.0 5.8 5.7
2004 5.7 5.6 5.8 5.6 5.6 5.6 5.5 5.4 5.4 5.5 5.4 5.4
2005 5.3 5.4 5.2 5.2 5.1 5.0 5.0 4.9 5.0 5.0 5.0 4.9
2006 4.7 4.8 4.7 4.7 4.6 4.6 4.7 4.7 4.5 4.4 4.5 4.4
2007 4.6 4.5 4.4 4.5 4.4 4.6 4.7 4.6 4.7 4.7 4.7 5.0
2008 5.0 4.9 5.1 5.0 5.4 5.6 5.8 6.1 6.1 6.5 6.8 7.3
2009 7.8 8.3 8.7 9.0 9.4 9.5 9.5 9.6 9.8 10.0 9.9 9.9
2010 9.8 9.8 9.9 9.9 9.6 9.4 9.5 9.5 9.5 9.5 9.8 9.3
2011 9.1 9.0 8.9 9.0 9.0 9.1 9.0 9.0 9.0 8.9 8.6 8.5
2012 8.3 8.3 8.2 8.1 8.2 8.2 8.2 8.1 7.8 7.9 7.8 7.8
2013 7.9 7.7 7.6 7.5 7.6 7.6 7.4 7.3

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Then of course there is GDP numbers which of course have been distorted by liberals.

Table 1.1.5. Gross Domestic Product
[Billions of dollars]
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: September 26, 2013 - Next Release Date October 30, 2013

Line 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 20
Gross domestic product 10289.7 10625.3 10980.2 11512.2 12277 13095.4 13857.9 14480.3 14720.3

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So GDP growing 4.5 trillion dollars is a bad thing? Clinton had a 3.5 trillion growth and Obama's is the worst of the three.

Then there is this

Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey
Original Data Value

Series Id: LNU05026645
Not Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (Unadj) Not in Labor Force, Searched For Work and Available, Discouraged Reasons For Not Currently Looking
Labor force status: Not in labor force
Type of data: Number in thousands
Age: 16 years and over
Job desires/not in labor force: Want a job now
Reasons not in labor force: Discouragement over job prospects (Persons who believe no job is available.)
Years: 2002 to 2012

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2002 328 375 330 320 414 342 405 378 392 359 385 403
2003 449 450 474 437 482 478 470 503 388 462 457 433
2004 432 484 514 492 476 478 504 534 412 429 392 442
2005 515 485 480 393 392 476 499 384 362 392 404 451
2006 396 386 451 381 323 481 428 448 325 331 349 274
2007 442 375 381 399 368 401 367 392 276 320 349 363
2008 467 396 401 412 400 420 461 381 467 484 608 642
2009 734 731 685 740 792 793 796 758 706 808 861 929
2010 1065 1204 994 1197 1083 1207 1185 1110 1209 1219 1282 1318
2011 993 1020 921 989 822 982 1119 977 1037 967 1096 945
2012 1059 1006 865 968 830 821 852 844 802 813 979 1068
2013 804 885 803 835 780 1027 988

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Still want to claim that Bush didn't have positive economic results? Those liberal talking points of yours are full of holes that only Obamabots believe. By the way, Republicans controlled the Congress from January 2003 to January 2007 so yes, put them back in charge

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Kobie said:

Well good, we're getting somewhere.



Mea culpa. To be fair to both Rush (GNNNH) and MMFA, to be honest, Media Matters is quite often very accurate. Yes, they are partisan, they have a clear agenda, and generally their audio/video is fully in context. This, however, is an old clip and it's obvious on a second glance that it's not in context, so I'll wave the white flag on that.

However, given the context of the discussion, I think some of the attacks on Michelle Obama for trying to help parents have their kids not be fat slugs are kind of appalling.



A few Daily Kos jerkoffs made fun of Laura Bush for running someone over when she was in college, but let's get serious. Laura got off light for a first lady. Nancy Reagan was treated worse, but to be fair, Nancy Reagan was a weirdo.



They're actually pretty reliable, but I'll fully admit that link screwed the pooch.



Again, yes, MMFA is partisan as hell, it's in their mission statement. But for all the attempted debunking of that site that I've seen, very few tries actually pass muster. This is one of them; but again, it's a clip that predates the existence of the site by what, 15 years?

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First of all, thanks for your admission on this clip of Limbaugh, and the resulting smear, being totally false..It takes at the least a shred of honesty to admit that...I appreciate that.

But, MM is probably the worst site in this country for lying about in general about republicans, or anyone that goes against liberal orthodoxy...They are rank propagandists, and not even good ones.

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

ItAin'tFree said:

Hitler, Mussolini, Franc were leftists. Period.

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Wrong. You're wrong. You have no clue what you're talking about. None whatsoever.

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Conservative said:

Your opinion noted but obviously the following doesn't matter

Then of course there is GDP numbers which of course have been distorted by liberals.

So GDP growing 4.5 trillion dollars is a bad thing? Clinton had a 3.5 trillion growth and Obama's is the worst of the three.

Then there is this

Still want to claim that Bush didn't have positive economic results? Those liberal talking points of yours are full of holes that only Obamabots believe. By the way, Republicans controlled the Congress from January 2003 to January 2007 so yes, put them back in charge

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So you bold through 2008, but ignore 2009, which was the recovery from the economic dump and before any lasting Obama policies took effect. Holy dishonesty, Batman.

The economy took a colossal crap on Bush's watch. Or are we now trying to change the calendar so that the crash and resulting recession started under Obama?

You hack.

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

j-mac said:

First of all, thanks for your admission on this clip of Limbaugh, and the resulting smear, being totally false..It takes at the least a shred of honesty to admit that...I appreciate that.

But, MM is probably the worst site in this country for lying about in general about republicans, or anyone that goes against liberal orthodoxy...They are rank propagandists, and not even good ones.

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I will say that particular clip was erroneous. But MMFA generally does a decent job of cataloguing right-wing media's smears.

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Kobie said:

I will say that particular clip was erroneous. But MMFA generally does a decent job of cataloguing right-wing media's smears.

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Ok, here's a challenge for you then.....Go on over to the General political discussion forum (I think that would be the right place), and start a thread on MM, and what you think they say that is true, I will research it, and prove it is a total lie, either in contextual ommision, or in outright manipulation of what was said....MM, David Brock, and his daddy George Soros are liars, but that isn't the topic here, so I'll just leave it at that.

Re: Cruz, Palin join protesters at WWII Memorial

j-mac said:

No, it means what I just said....Cut 1% of spending, and balance the damned budget...Why shouldn't we have a balanced budget? Everyone I know of has to do that, why shouldn't they?

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So, you are dismissing the other part of the plan that caps spending at 18%?

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Kobie said:

So you bold through 2008, but ignore 2009, which was the recovery from the economic dump and before any lasting Obama policies took effect. Holy dishonesty, Batman.

The economy took a colossal crap on Bush's watch. Or are we now trying to change the calendar so that the crash and resulting recession started under Obama?

You hack.

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I ignored 2009 because Obama implemented his stimulus program almost immediately after entering office or did you forget? That was for shovel ready jobs that was going to keep unemployment below 8%. The economy took a big hit in 2008 and was coming out of recession which it did in June 2009 which obviously you forgot as well. Leadership is about talking responsibility and taking the cards that you are dealt. Bush was dealt a recession in 2001 which was also bolded so Bush is responsible for the results in 2001 just like Obama is responsible for the results of 2009. To this date Obama still doesn't take responsibility for the results nor do his supporters/

As a hack I post actual data, refute the data, tell me when those shovels are going to arrive for those shovel ready jobs? Tell me why Bush is charged with the entire economic collapse with Democrats in control of Congress? Tell me why Bush is responsible for the entire 2009 deficit when Obama spent well over 700 billion dollars in 2009? Tell me why leftwing partisans cannot accept responsibility for anything?

Re: Cruz, Palin join protesters at WWII Memorial

DiavoTheMiavo said:

So, you are dismissing the other part of the plan that caps spending at 18%?

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Why is that so out of bounds...Historically that has always been the level it has bounced around....That is until Big spender Obama came to town....

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Kobie said:

Wrong. You're wrong. You have no clue what you're talking about. None whatsoever.

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Well, point out to me where they championed the ideas of individual freedoms and liberty then instead of their collectivist ideology towards the state that they demonstrated. Until then, I'll rest on their leftist deeds for their states as a statement of their political activity. Others might should consider it as well as an edge against future tyranny.

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Conservative said:

I ignored 2009 because Obama implemented his stimulus program almost immediately after entering office or did you forget? That was for shovel ready jobs that was going to keep unemployment below 8%. The economy took a big hit in 2008 and was coming out of recession which it did in June 2009 which obviously you forgot as well. Leadership is about talking responsibility and taking the cards that you are dealt. Bush was dealt a recession in 2001 which was also bolded so Bush is responsible for the results in 2001 just like Obama is responsible for the results of 2009. To this date Obama still doesn't take responsibility for the results nor do his supporters/

As a hack I post actual data, refute the data, tell me when those shovels are going to arrive for those shovel ready jobs? Tell me why Bush is charged with the entire economic collapse with Democrats in control of Congress? Tell me why Bush is responsible for the entire 2009 deficit when Obama spent well over 700 billion dollars in 2009? Tell me partisans cannot accept responsibility for anything?

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I didn't say Bush was responsible for the entire 2009 deficit; however, he (or, at least his administration) was responsible for the entirety of 2009 unemployment. Economy crashes, unemployment happens later.

I also never charged Bush with the entire economic collapse. I'm on record as saying that both parties had a hand in it. The only person I see trying to blame the crappy economy on one person is you.

And also, even trying to equate the mild downturn Bush got in 2001 with the utter economic meltdown Obama inherited in 2009 is stunningly dishonest.

You are the LAST person to be calling anyone a partisan. You post cherry-picked data, bolded for your convenience, minus all economic context, to make your guy look good. You're a hack.

Re: Cruz, Palin join protesters at WWII Memorial

j-mac said:

Why is that so out of bounds...Historically that has always been the level it has bounced around....That is until Big spender Obama came to town....

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You keep asking that question, but you cannot tell me how the government can run on a budget less than $1-trillion a year. I keep telling you I don't see a way to cut up to 66% of our spending. Enlighten me on the immediate cuts you believe can happen under this plan.

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Gardener said:

Have you ever considered studying even a little bit of political science instead of just making it up as you go by indulging in these very childish and inane statements?

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Let us know when you receive your GED.

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

ItAin'tFree said:

Well, point out to me where they championed the ideas of individual freedoms and liberty then instead of their collectivist ideology towards the state that they demonstrated. Until then, I'll rest on their leftist deeds for their states as a statement of their political activity. Others might should consider it as well as an edge against future tyranny.

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They were authoritarian, but they were fiercely nationalistic and militaristic. Apparently in ItAin'tFreeverse, right-wingers can't be authoritarian.

"Individual freedoms and liberty" are not left-right, they are authoritarian-libertarian. You can have left-wing societies with individual freedoms and liberty, you can have rightwing societies with neither. You're viewing politics as a line, not a spectrum.

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Kobie said:

Yes, there were American communists; in the years after the Gilded Age, Communism and Marxism were pretty popular theories among the working class.

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And it was certainly popular among the upper class and the 'intellectuals' as well.

However, communism was hardly indicative of the mindset of the "political left," as you say, as a whole.

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But it was. That doesn't mean that the political left is evil, though it comes in many forms that has been proven evil, but the commonality involves wanting a system under which a government has greater control over people's lives. The first intentions of other systems were always good as well, each thinking they were on to something that would solve all the problems life has to offer, like a religion.

Leftists in the US want Obamacare now (a very topical and modest example), convinced that this will make healthcare cheaper, universal, and more 'fair'. When it inevitably fails there will be the usual cries of it not be implemented properly, etc. that it was some scapegoats fault. These theories can never truly fail in the minds of many, no matter how often they actually do.

Obamacare is failing already and its not really out of the gate, and its adherents will say later, just as ex communists, Nazis, Fascists, etc. have said, that it wasn't what they envisioned, that they meant for something better. It seems that it it human nature for many to believe that there has to be a greater force governing their lives because life is just too scary and complicated otherwise. But that greater force can take on many forms and those who want less government interference in their lives and more personal freedom are definitely losing the battle.

You're taking a select few people, especially ones that ascribe to an ideology that has basically become a dirty word in the U.S., and are trying to ascribe their beliefs to the whole of the "political left," which is, again, stunningly intellectually dishonest.

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There is a shared tendency among all of them. We can see now Leftists are generally supporting Islam, a religion that denigrates women, Gays and so on. But the Left isn't as critical as it should be because it is a system, and the left likes 'systems'.

And this still does nothing to prove that the CIO went on strike to help Hitler. And I will take the fact that you completely ignored my previous points regarding the AFL and the flag salute as your tacit admission of defeat regarding them.

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Many were in favor of Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, etc, and then when learning of the truth they largely abandoned them. But that does not prevent these types from looking for a strong leader who they believe will provide a system of sorts that will give their lives direction and security. Those Hope and Changey sort of leaders.

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

I can only take so much right-wing bullsh*t stuffed in a sock for one day. I'll deal with this heap of nonsense later.

Re: Cruz, Palin join protesters at WWII Memorial

DiavoTheMiavo said:

You keep asking that question, but you cannot tell me how the government can run on a budget less than $1-trillion a year. I keep telling you I don't see a way to cut up to 66% of our spending. Enlighten me on the immediate cuts you believe can happen under this plan.

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Most Outrageous Government Waste : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education

The Waste List: 66 Crazy Ways That The U.S. Government Is Wasting Your Hard-Earned Money

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

ItAin'tFree said:

Let us know when you receive your GED.

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Why would I need that?

My application was accepted by Stanford in 1972.

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Kobie;1062450114]I didn't say Bush was responsible for the entire 2009 deficit; however, he (or, at least his administration) was responsible for the entirety of 2009 unemployment. Economy crashes, unemployment happens later.

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Really? Explain how? What role did Congress play in the crash? Name for me any other President who had his economic policies in place day one after taking office? Obama had his stimulus plan in effect in February 2009. Did you notice the discouraged workers in 2010-2011. Please explain how those are Bush's responsibilities? Discouraged workers aren't counted in the official unemployment numbers so the more discouraged the better the official rate shows. You call me a political hack?

I also never charged Bush with the entire economic collapse. I'm on record as saying that both parties had a hand in it. The only person I see trying to blame the crappy economy on one person is you.

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I am the one person here posting actual results which you still ignore just like you are now ignoring when the Obama economic policies went into effect. I don't place blame, I blame the failure to accept responsibility for the results generated.

And also, even trying to equate the mild downturn Bush got in 2001 with the utter economic meltdown Obama inherited in 2009 is stunningly dishonest.

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I am not equating them at all, just stating facts. the recession that Bush inherited affected the economy and was compounded by 9/11 but Bush was responsible for those results and as I pointed out the Republicans only controlled the Congress from January 2003 to January 2006 so I suggest you look at the results to see what Bush and the Republicans accomplished.

You are the LAST person to be calling anyone a partisan. You post cherry-picked data, bolded for your convenience, minus all economic context, to make your guy look good. You're a hack.

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Cherry picked data? LOL, the post the data that you believe is credible or prove mine wrong. Data comes from economic activity or didn't you know that? I have given every liberal here including you the opportunity to prove me data wrong, you just levy charges and never prove anything I have posted is wrong or cherry picked. The data I post comes from BLS.gov, BEA.gov, the U.S. Census, and the U.S. Treasury thus all that data is verifiable. I suggest spending less time here and more time doing research.

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Kobie said:

I can only take so much right-wing bullsh*t stuffed in a sock for one day. I'll deal with this heap of nonsense later.

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I don't mind conservatism as much as I do complete ignorance and reducing politics to little more than a child's game of Cowboys and Indians.

If people could come to realize that liberalism and conservatism are political ideologies rather than personal identities, they might be able to discuss politics more intelligently instead of all this simple-minded finger pointing. You can tell them all day that Nazis were extreme right and Stalinist Russia extreme left, try to explain to them that authoritarianism is a common component to both and try to lead them to an actual understanding of the political terms they bandy about, but all they know is "My guys good. Your guys bad".

It's the politics of children.

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Kobie said:

They were authoritarian, but they were fiercely nationalistic and militaristic. Apparently in ItAin'tFreeverse, right-wingers can't be authoritarian.

"Individual freedoms and liberty" are not left-right, they are authoritarian-libertarian. You can have left-wing societies with individual freedoms and liberty, you can have rightwing societies with neither. You're viewing politics as a line, not a spectrum.

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They were communists, socialists and fascists. All believed in the collectivism for the state utilizing slightly different methods and programs to designed to achieve the end goal for the state. And it's all failed leftist ideology. But the failure denial continues even today by leftists of every stripe. "He wasn't this", He wasn't that", "it would have worked but..", "government redistribution" and so on never own up to it's been tried by leftists and already failed. Insanity.

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Gardener said:

Why would I need that?

My application was accepted by Stanford in 1972.

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Every car dealer in any town will accept every loan application.

Re: Cruz, Palin join protesters at WWII Memorial

DiavoTheMiavo said:

You keep asking that question, but you cannot tell me how the government can run on a budget less than $1-trillion a year. I keep telling you I don't see a way to cut up to 66% of our spending. Enlighten me on the immediate cuts you believe can happen under this plan.

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Immediately in layman terms....I would say, Defense, Education, Ag, EPA, entitlements like medicare, etc...All can take a 1% haircut.