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Cruz, Palin join protesters at WWII Memorial[W:793:1010:1190]

Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

I'm not trying to get you angry nor do I care if you are conservative. You posted something erroneous. You offered no substantiation for it, just your own opinion which, when it comes to proving a position, is irrelevant. Pointing out stormfront is an extreme example, but it fits within conservatism and demonstrates that your point is invalid. Now, it seems like you don't like that, but that is also irrelevant. So, now that your position has been rendered foolish by Kobie's information, and what I have demonstrated, do you have any actual evidence that you'd like to present, or are you done here?

Already posted.
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Young was slapped down by Boehner. "Shuck and jive" has been used by a number of commentators across the political spectrum. Neither Limbaugh nor Beck could be called a representative of conservative thought. And the photo was photoshopped. What else you got?:peace

What was that you were saying earlier about "denial"?

You're just plain making up the bold.
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

What positions do you support or don't support disqualify you as not being conservative?

Pro-choice, drug legalization, smaller Defense Department, single payer health care.
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Who said 'the right' doesn't base attacks on any of these issues. It is just not mainstream within the party as it is with the leftists. And the attacks on Sarah Palin went well beyond any example you provided here.

Muslims?

Jack Hays did, for starters. And you're still wrong.
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

What was that you were saying earlier about "denial"?

You're just plain making up the bold.

No. The Romney Ryan patch was added to an existing photo.
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Stormfront's agenda is completely consistent with a part of the bagger's agenda. That's not debatable in the least but it is debatable on how much of the bagger party members are racists and haters.

If one looks at their representation on the street then one can come to a conclusion on how ingrained it is with them. It's as easy as looking at one of their demonstrations and the signs they carry.

I would sincerely suggest that the biggest element portrayed at any one time is racism and hate, certainly not a desire for bringing back their supplyside agenda. Most baggers don't even understand what it means and if they did they would be running from it.

How do you know that people carrying signs or wearing provocative T-Shirts are members of the Tea Party?

It was demonstrated long ago that there were left wing plants at these rallies and they were asked to leave.

In order to have a legitimate opinion of the Tea Party it would be necessary to visit an official Tea Party website. Those who get their information from T-Shirts or Placards tend to not be very bright. 'Progressive' in fact.
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

How do you know that people carrying signs or wearing provocative T-Shirts are members of the Tea Party?

It was demonstrated long ago that there were left wing plants at these rallies and they were asked to leave.

In order to have a legitimate opinion of the Tea Party it would be necessary to visit an official Tea Party website. Those who get their information from T-Shirts or Placards tend to not be very bright. 'Progressive' in fact.

Yeah o.k., they're all leftwing plants. At least that's better than denial that they aren't there with the baggers and they don't exist!

Really, there's no use denying that the racist element is there, but you could argue to what degree I guess. And if there is an effort to eliminate it then I haven't heard it. Do you have some bagger leaders on record saying that it needs to be eliminated?
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Yeah o.k., they're all leftwing plants. At least that's better than denial that they aren't there with the baggers and they don't exist!

Really, there's no use denying that the racist element is there, but you could argue to what degree I guess. And if there is an effort to eliminate it then I haven't heard it. Do you have some bagger leaders on record saying that it needs to be eliminated?

Have you actually visited a Tea Party website to see what they're all about?
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Yeah o.k., they're all leftwing plants. At least that's better than denial that they aren't there with the baggers and they don't exist!

Really, there's no use denying that the racist element is there, but you could argue to what degree I guess. And if there is an effort to eliminate it then I haven't heard it. Do you have some bagger leaders on record saying that it needs to be eliminated?

There is no need to eliminate that which has never been part of the Tea Party in the first place.
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

No. The Romney Ryan patch was added to an existing photo.

Prove it. And even if it was, that shirt itself still a racist attack on Obama.
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Prove it. And even if it was, that shirt itself still a racist attack on Obama.

Because the photo predates the Romney/Ryan nomination. Yes, it's a racist attack, but by who? Nothing ties it to any political group.
 
Re: Cruz, Palin join protesters at WWII Memorial

Dinner guests. Out. Be well.
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Have you actually visited a Tea Party website to see what they're all about?

There's no mistaking what their 'professed' agenda is and so I don't need to be told it again and again. On the contrary, I can see what their real agenda is by looking at them in action. And don't forget, they've clearly aligned themselves with the crazy vaudeville comedian Glenn Beck. Is that alone any way to put their bid in for running a country? Media comedy shows of that sort can't really be taken seriously by voters. They haven't distanced themselves from that idiot either and that's because it's a large part of their support in the days of growing the brand.
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Because the photo predates the Romney/Ryan nomination. Yes, it's a racist attack, but by who? Nothing ties it to any political group.

It's good enough for now to have their support on the run with denial of the facts they have presented with their signs and demonstrations.
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Stormfront's agenda is completely consistent with a part of the bagger's agenda. That's not debatable in the least but it is debatable on how much of the bagger party members are racists and haters.

I don't think that's remotely true either. This conversation isn't and hasn't been about "all tea partiers are racist." This is a stupid pissing match after I made an offhanded comment with a derisive nickname toward Sarah Palin and Grant and Jack Hays went off the deep end.
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Hard core leftists is what they are.

LOL WHAT. Neo-Nazis are "hard core leftists?" What color is the sky in your world?
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

That is ridiculous. Shall we take a look at how some conservatives address homosexuals? Want to know how some conservatives address blacks or Jews? Check out stormfront... unless you think that the people there are liberals.

You are soooo wrong about anti-Semitism being from Conservatives. In this country the greatest supporters of Israel are Conservatives.

The closer the vein of Socialism the greater the anti-Semitism throughout the world.

Here's a publications making the point.

The Socialist Roots of Modern Anti-Semitism: Newsroom: The Independent Institute


But there is a slew of reading material at this website

Left-Wing Antisemitism


Nazism isn't owned by any particular party.

Common Ground between Right and Left

Today's German anti-Semitism is deeply connected to the Nazi period and the wish to expunge guilt and responsibility for dealing with it. Right-wing extremism, neo-Nazism, and extreme conservatism seem "naturally" linked to denial or minimalization of the Holocaust, or calling for a new one. As elsewhere in Europe, a relatively new "brotherhood" has emerged in Germany between the extreme Right and fundamentalist Islam.

Anti-Zionism, however - which is not mere criticism of Israeli policies, but the denial of the Jewish people's right to live in their own state - also links leftists and rightists. Since the Six Day War of 1967, both the extreme and the mainstream Left in Europe have shown strong anti-Zionist tendencies, not always distinguishable from anti-Semitism. Although leftist anti-Zionism seemed to decline after the fall of Communism in 1990, it was reanimated by the Second Intifada and the antiglobalization movement, which is today a main source of leftist anti-Semitism.

In a May 2002 survey in the weekly magazine Der Spiegel, 25% agreed that "what the state of Israel does to the Palestinians is no different than what the Nazis did during the Third Reich to the Jews."2 A new scholarly book analyzes how deeply anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism are rooted in German society.3 Since 1989, united Germany seems to stand on two main pillars: a strong anti-American and anti-Israeli attitude.


The Postwar, Pre-1967 Roots

Anti-Semitism was never exclusive to the Right; Communism, for its part, often vilified Jews as capitalists. Communism in East Germany, as elsewhere, denied the right to practice the Jewish religion and sought to eradicate religion in general, including Judaism. East Germany's anti-Semitic policies first became evident in January 1953 when the Stasi - the state security service - confiscated documents of the Jewish communities, searched the homes of Jewish leaders, and spoke of a "Zionist conspiracy." After the Six Day War, East Germany officially adopted an anti-Zionist stance. However, no serious data on East German anti-Semitism is available before the reunification in 1989.

Although West German left-wing anti-Semitism also increased steadily after the Six Day War, before then the West German Left supported Israel generally, and specifically the Wiedergutmachung (Reparations Agreement of 1953) and the establishment of diplomatic relations in 1965. This friendliness was, however, based on an idealization of Israel, kibbutzim, and pioneering and was not on genuinely firm ground.4 Opposition to the conservative government of Chancellor Konrad Adenauer also played a role in this left-wing philo-Semitism.

During the 1960s, the West German Left divided into a more "conservative" wing and a New Left trend. Whereas Chancellor Willy Brandt was said to be a true and unwavering friend of Israel,5 many young leftists took radical positions and opposed Brandt's "establishment" Social Democratic Party. In 1966 they founded the Nonparliamentary Opposition (APO), a popular movement that sought to "renew" German politics from the outside. Many of its members and supporters later showed sympathy for the RAF, a leftist terrorist movement that had ties to the PLO and whose cadres trained in terrorist camps in Lebanon.
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

LOL WHAT. Neo-Nazis are "hard core leftists?" What color is the sky in your world?

This is the new myth of the right wing wackjobs - that Nazis were actually leftists. Apparently they are unaware that the first people the Nazis put in concentration camps - even before the Jews - were the union organizers and the Socialists.

I think they tie this lunatic concept to the fact that Nazi is short for National Socialists - which in their tiny pea brains makes them leftists. By this logic, Iraq's Republican Guard were Republicans.
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

This is the new myth of the right wing wackjobs - that Nazis were actually leftists. Apparently they are unaware that the first people the Nazis put in concentration camps - even before the Jews - were the union organizers and the Socialists.

I think they tie this lunatic concept to the fact that Nazi is short for National Socialists - which in their tiny pea brains makes them leftists. By this logic, Iraq's Republican Guard were Republicans.

I've long held the position that for many on the right, the word "liberal," "left" or "leftist" means less "actual liberal thought" and more "things that give me a mad."
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

I've long held the position that for many on the right, the word "liberal," "left" or "leftist" means less "actual liberal thought" and more "things that give me a mad."


Having joined a tribe called "conservative", they need to identify the enemy tribe which they call "liberal".

It has everything to do with the need to belong to an easily identified group and almost nothing to do with any sort of coherent ideology.
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Having joined a tribe called "conservative", they need to identify the enemy tribe which they call "liberal".

It has everything to do with the need to belong to an easily identified group and almost nothing to do with any sort of coherent ideology.

And if they're in the "Very Conservative" tribe, hoo boy. Most of those types, you need two hands to count the number of times they'll use "liberal" or "leftist" in their average post.
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

And if they're in the "Very Conservative" tribe, hoo boy. Most of those types, you need two hands to count the number of times they'll use "liberal" or "leftist" in their average post.

Well, they don't need their hands, anyway. They receive all the programming they need from their radio demagogues, so never need their hands to turn the dial.
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

Well, they don't need their hands, anyway. They receive all the programming they need from their radio demagogues, so never need their hands to turn the dial.

No actually those who study history understand Nazism comes in many flavors and is not a left or right thing.
And those who also study history know today this new anti-Semitic movement is tied to the Socialist agenda.

Here's a quote for you all to chew on

Auschwitz meant that six million Jews were killed, and thrown on the waste-heap of Europe, for what they were considered: money-Jews. Finance capital and the banks, the hard core of the system of imperialism and capitalism, had turned the hatred of men against money and exploitation, and against the Jews. . . . Antisemitism is really a hatred of capitalism.
—Ulrike Meinhof, left-wing German terrorist of the 1970s
 
Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

No actually those who study history understand Nazism comes in many flavors and is not a left or right thing.
And those who also study history know today this new anti-Semitic movement is tied to the Socialist agenda.

Here's a quote for you all to chew on

We're off the Nazi thing. Those of us who know better know that Nazism pretty much transcends the left-right dichotomy. It's not even remotely what Gardener was talking about.
 
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