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Thread: Cruz, Palin join protesters at WWII Memorial[W:793:1010:1190]

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    Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Well, point out to me where they championed the ideas of individual freedoms and liberty then instead of their collectivist ideology towards the state that they demonstrated. Until then, I'll rest on their leftist deeds for their states as a statement of their political activity. Others might should consider it as well as an edge against future tyranny.
    They were authoritarian, but they were fiercely nationalistic and militaristic. Apparently in ItAin'tFreeverse, right-wingers can't be authoritarian.

    "Individual freedoms and liberty" are not left-right, they are authoritarian-libertarian. You can have left-wing societies with individual freedoms and liberty, you can have rightwing societies with neither. You're viewing politics as a line, not a spectrum.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Yes, there were American communists; in the years after the Gilded Age, Communism and Marxism were pretty popular theories among the working class.
    And it was certainly popular among the upper class and the 'intellectuals' as well.
    However, communism was hardly indicative of the mindset of the "political left," as you say, as a whole.
    But it was. That doesn't mean that the political left is evil, though it comes in many forms that has been proven evil, but the commonality involves wanting a system under which a government has greater control over people's lives. The first intentions of other systems were always good as well, each thinking they were on to something that would solve all the problems life has to offer, like a religion.

    Leftists in the US want Obamacare now (a very topical and modest example), convinced that this will make healthcare cheaper, universal, and more 'fair'. When it inevitably fails there will be the usual cries of it not be implemented properly, etc. that it was some scapegoats fault. These theories can never truly fail in the minds of many, no matter how often they actually do.

    Obamacare is failing already and its not really out of the gate, and its adherents will say later, just as ex communists, Nazis, Fascists, etc. have said, that it wasn't what they envisioned, that they meant for something better. It seems that it it human nature for many to believe that there has to be a greater force governing their lives because life is just too scary and complicated otherwise. But that greater force can take on many forms and those who want less government interference in their lives and more personal freedom are definitely losing the battle.

    You're taking a select few people, especially ones that ascribe to an ideology that has basically become a dirty word in the U.S., and are trying to ascribe their beliefs to the whole of the "political left," which is, again, stunningly intellectually dishonest.
    There is a shared tendency among all of them. We can see now Leftists are generally supporting Islam, a religion that denigrates women, Gays and so on. But the Left isn't as critical as it should be because it is a system, and the left likes 'systems'.

    And this still does nothing to prove that the CIO went on strike to help Hitler. And I will take the fact that you completely ignored my previous points regarding the AFL and the flag salute as your tacit admission of defeat regarding them.
    Many were in favor of Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, etc, and then when learning of the truth they largely abandoned them. But that does not prevent these types from looking for a strong leader who they believe will provide a system of sorts that will give their lives direction and security. Those Hope and Changey sort of leaders.

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    Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

    I can only take so much right-wing bullsh*t stuffed in a sock for one day. I'll deal with this heap of nonsense later.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Cruz, Palin join protesters at WWII Memorial

    Quote Originally Posted by DiavoTheMiavo View Post
    You keep asking that question, but you cannot tell me how the government can run on a budget less than $1-trillion a year. I keep telling you I don't see a way to cut up to 66% of our spending. Enlighten me on the immediate cuts you believe can happen under this plan.
    Most Outrageous Government Waste : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education

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    Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Let us know when you receive your GED.
    Why would I need that?

    My application was accepted by Stanford in 1972.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

    Kobie;1062450114]I didn't say Bush was responsible for the entire 2009 deficit; however, he (or, at least his administration) was responsible for the entirety of 2009 unemployment. Economy crashes, unemployment happens later.
    Really? Explain how? What role did Congress play in the crash? Name for me any other President who had his economic policies in place day one after taking office? Obama had his stimulus plan in effect in February 2009. Did you notice the discouraged workers in 2010-2011. Please explain how those are Bush's responsibilities? Discouraged workers aren't counted in the official unemployment numbers so the more discouraged the better the official rate shows. You call me a political hack?

    I also never charged Bush with the entire economic collapse. I'm on record as saying that both parties had a hand in it. The only person I see trying to blame the crappy economy on one person is you.
    I am the one person here posting actual results which you still ignore just like you are now ignoring when the Obama economic policies went into effect. I don't place blame, I blame the failure to accept responsibility for the results generated.

    And also, even trying to equate the mild downturn Bush got in 2001 with the utter economic meltdown Obama inherited in 2009 is stunningly dishonest.
    I am not equating them at all, just stating facts. the recession that Bush inherited affected the economy and was compounded by 9/11 but Bush was responsible for those results and as I pointed out the Republicans only controlled the Congress from January 2003 to January 2006 so I suggest you look at the results to see what Bush and the Republicans accomplished.

    You are the LAST person to be calling anyone a partisan. You post cherry-picked data, bolded for your convenience, minus all economic context, to make your guy look good. You're a hack.
    Cherry picked data? LOL, the post the data that you believe is credible or prove mine wrong. Data comes from economic activity or didn't you know that? I have given every liberal here including you the opportunity to prove me data wrong, you just levy charges and never prove anything I have posted is wrong or cherry picked. The data I post comes from BLS.gov, BEA.gov, the U.S. Census, and the U.S. Treasury thus all that data is verifiable. I suggest spending less time here and more time doing research.

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    Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I can only take so much right-wing bullsh*t stuffed in a sock for one day. I'll deal with this heap of nonsense later.
    I don't mind conservatism as much as I do complete ignorance and reducing politics to little more than a child's game of Cowboys and Indians.

    If people could come to realize that liberalism and conservatism are political ideologies rather than personal identities, they might be able to discuss politics more intelligently instead of all this simple-minded finger pointing. You can tell them all day that Nazis were extreme right and Stalinist Russia extreme left, try to explain to them that authoritarianism is a common component to both and try to lead them to an actual understanding of the political terms they bandy about, but all they know is "My guys good. Your guys bad".

    It's the politics of children.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    They were authoritarian, but they were fiercely nationalistic and militaristic. Apparently in ItAin'tFreeverse, right-wingers can't be authoritarian.

    "Individual freedoms and liberty" are not left-right, they are authoritarian-libertarian. You can have left-wing societies with individual freedoms and liberty, you can have rightwing societies with neither. You're viewing politics as a line, not a spectrum.
    They were communists, socialists and fascists. All believed in the collectivism for the state utilizing slightly different methods and programs to designed to achieve the end goal for the state. And it's all failed leftist ideology. But the failure denial continues even today by leftists of every stripe. "He wasn't this", He wasn't that", "it would have worked but..", "government redistribution" and so on never own up to it's been tried by leftists and already failed. Insanity.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

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    Re: Vets take down barricades in Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Why would I need that?

    My application was accepted by Stanford in 1972.
    Every car dealer in any town will accept every loan application.
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    Re: Cruz, Palin join protesters at WWII Memorial

    Quote Originally Posted by DiavoTheMiavo View Post
    You keep asking that question, but you cannot tell me how the government can run on a budget less than $1-trillion a year. I keep telling you I don't see a way to cut up to 66% of our spending. Enlighten me on the immediate cuts you believe can happen under this plan.
    Immediately in layman terms....I would say, Defense, Education, Ag, EPA, entitlements like medicare, etc...All can take a 1% haircut.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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