Page 8 of 17 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 164

Thread: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

  1. #71
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:00 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,432

    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Heh, nice, but it since it's passage the ADA most often refers to the Americans with disabilities act. Read your own link, among the exceptions is:



    The only reason those parks are shut down is that Obama's admin wants Americans to feel the pain and pressure his opponents.
    No the parks are shut down because they do not have the authority to have park staff working, with the exception of those essential to the protection of the park. No ticket takers, no grounds crew, no cleaners, no park guides, no one but those essential to keep the land and building protected are allowed to work
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

  2. #72
    Sage
    clownboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    08-17-16 @ 10:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    26,087

    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    No the parks are shut down because they do not have the authority to have park staff working, with the exception of those essential to the protection of the park. No ticket takers, no grounds crew, no cleaners, no park guides, no one but those essential to keep the land and building protected are allowed to work
    Indeed, and not all parks and federal lands require ticket takers. Cleaning and protection from vandalism, trash ARE essential to the protection of that land.

  3. #73
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:00 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,432

    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    We are talking about people that were already there when the park was closed. Why stop them from taking pictures?

    I think you know the answer, you just don't want to say it. You keep going back to protecting people from themselves.
    Why

    A banana peel was left on the ground, granny slips and breaks her hip. They sue the government for negligence, and win.

    Or little Timmy goes wandering off, gets lost in the woods. The parents try to find someone to help look for little Timmy, but can not find anyone (and it would be illegal for park rangers to work for free). Little Timmy gets eaten by a cougar, the parents sue the US government

    Aunt Abby wants a closer look of the geyser, she gets up real close, and without park guides to warn her getting that close is dangerous, she gets burnt badly when it erupts, she and her family sue the government.

    Plenty of reasons to keep the parks closed, vandalism and safety being primary. Defense against lawsuits being another
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

  4. #74
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:00 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,432

    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Indeed, and not all parks and federal lands require ticket takers. Cleaning and protection from vandalism, trash ARE essential to the protection of that land.
    Keeping out people is the only aspect that would be essential. A janitor would not be seen as essential. Only keeping the boilers operating would be considered essential, not picking up trash, as the trash would not be there is people are not there. Vandalism is easiest to prevent when people are not around
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

  5. #75
    Sage
    clownboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    08-17-16 @ 10:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    26,087

    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Why

    A banana peel was left on the ground, granny slips and breaks her hip. They sue the government for negligence, and win.

    Or little Timmy goes wandering off, gets lost in the woods. The parents try to find someone to help look for little Timmy, but can not find anyone (and it would be illegal for park rangers to work for free). Little Timmy gets eaten by a cougar, the parents sue the US government

    Aunt Abby wants a closer look of the geyser, she gets up real close, and without park guides to warn her getting that close is dangerous, she gets burnt badly when it erupts, she and her family sue the government.

    Plenty of reasons to keep the parks closed, vandalism and safety being primary. Defense against lawsuits being another
    Case one, she has no case, she knows the park maintenance is shut down, that's purely a signage issue.

    Case two, emergency services are exempt from the shutdown as noted in your link.

    Case three, happens all the time right now and they have no case. Once again a signage issue. Besides protection and guarding of the geysers falls under the exemptions noted in your link.

    Protection from vandalism falls under your linked exceptions. The law suit issues fall under simple signage.

  6. #76
    Sage
    clownboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    08-17-16 @ 10:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    26,087

    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Keeping out people is the only aspect that would be essential. A janitor would not be seen as essential. Only keeping the boilers operating would be considered essential, not picking up trash, as the trash would not be there is people are not there. Vandalism is easiest to prevent when people are not around
    Not by a long shot. Keeping the people from THEIR land is hardly essential. Keeping it clean and free from vandalism is indeed "protection". If your last statement were true then it would be easiest to never open the land to the public.

  7. #77
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:00 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,432

    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Case one, she has no case, she knows the park maintenance is shut down, that's purely a signage issue.

    Case two, emergency services are exempt from the shutdown as noted in your link.

    Case three, happens all the time right now and they have no case. Once again a signage issue. Besides protection and guarding of the geysers falls under the exemptions noted in your link.

    Protection from vandalism falls under your linked exceptions. The law suit issues fall under simple signage.
    And the easiest and cheapest way to protect the park and buildings is to keep the park free from people

    As for slips and falls, it is not a signage issue when the area is not normally a slip or fall area. Grocery stores can and are sued when they do not have tripping/slippery hazard signs up (in cases of recent mopping), in cases of fruit (grapes for instance) being on the floor with no sign present, it can lead to a lawsuit and has.

    Case 2, given there would be no park staff except for a few park rangers, they would have difficultly finding someone to report the problem too. Phone lines could and most likely be down, the lack of staff could be seen as negligent, and leave the government open to being sued

    Case 3. Aunt Abby is a German tourist, who can not read English, and no park guides were around to provide warnings, again negligent in protecting the public from hazards
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

  8. #78
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:00 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,432

    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Not by a long shot. Keeping the people from THEIR land is hardly essential. Keeping it clean and free from vandalism is indeed "protection". If your last statement were true then it would be easiest to never open the land to the public.
    Under normal circumstances, having janitorial staff would be allowed. Thus the park could be open to the general public. The same would go with the other park staff from security to general admin. This is not normal, and only those which are essential to the protection of the land and building is allowed. Having janitors on the job so the public can see the geyser is not essential and could lead to the manager being arrested
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

  9. #79
    Sage
    Moot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:56 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    27,472

    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    In this case the Federal government is the outsider so your statement doesn't make sense.
    In this case the Federal government prevents the state from over developing the land where there isn't any water and short term resource exploitation for the benefit of a few.

    If anything good could be said to come out of this shut down, its that the people of Utah are finally starting to realize just how much their own communittees and small businesses depend on the National Parks and the Department of Defense for their economic existence. Utahans are not happy or amused with Mr. Mike Lee's grand standing shenagians and it's starting to show in the polls. Mr. Lee's favorability is dropping like a lead balloon.....

    Most Utahns disapprove of Sen. Mike Lee, want him to compromise | The Salt Lake Tribune


    Cruz and Lee both suffer in the polls


    I pray he takes the rest of the tea party legislators down with him.

  10. #80
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Where they have FOX on in bars and restaurants
    Last Seen
    09-14-14 @ 02:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    14,700

    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The state wants control over federal lands simply so they can 'drill baby drill' on some the most protected scenic wildlife areas in the world and to sell off huge parcels of land to private developers. There is absolutely zero benefit for the public to sell off or let the state control their public lands. For one thing, it would raise state taxes, the public would never see the profits, and if the land is sold they wouldn't have access to it anymore. So what would be the point...what is the benefit for the public? After all, it is their land and it should stay that way for future generations to enjoy.
    So you are changing the subject from national parks to all fed lands or are you saying Utah would turn Arches into a parking lot? As I showed you earlier Utah has a great record for protecting its most scenic treasures.

Page 8 of 17 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •