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Thread: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Designating wilderness areas as a protected wilderness and national parks is a way to preserve the land. If the Utah state politicians had their way....they'd be drilling, mining and polluting right smack dab in the middle of a national park if they could. The federal government is the only thing that is protecting the wilderness (and the people) from the tyranny of the states and cheap, greedy, ignorant, self serving state politicians. Thank God for the Federal Government.
    Unfortunately that's less than true. The feds can and do allow resource and timber extraction from designated wilderness areas. They just don't allow the state to do so.

    Btw, states designate wilderness areas too. Screw the feds and what they've done to our forests out West here.

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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Nonsense. ADA is a federal law that is supported by federal funds that Obama's admin is saying are unavailable to hold those facilities open in the first place. If they have the money to provide personnel to do the monitoring and ticketting they could be watching the park instead.

    Not to mention ADA wouldn't be applicable here. If the park is closed for all there is no discrimination of folks with disabilities.
    ◾Protection of federal lands, buildings, waterways, and other property of the U.S.;

    What Happens During a Government Shutdown?

    Protection of federal lands and building, essential under the ADA

    Keeping the park open, to the general public is not essential and doing so would be illegal
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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Tourists aren't all they're cracked up to be. Even when the park is open they tend not to follow the rules and leave their garbage around and put themselves and others in danger. Every year we hear about some tourist getting lost, or stranded on a cliff ledge or getting too close to the buffalo and the bears. Some tourists are just rude, obnoxious assholes and think the world should revolve around them. I suspect that's the case for most of those tourists complaining the loudest.
    Well if you want to discourage tourism you're going about it the right way.

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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    What Happens During a Government Shutdown?

    Protection of federal lands and building, essential under the ADA

    Keeping the park open, to the general public is not essential and doing so would be illegal
    Are you sure we're talking about the same ADA? The ADA refers to the Americans with disabilities act. What are you talking about?

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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    I would suggest liability reasons

    1. From people suing if they hurt themselves at the park. Without proper supervision, maintenance and cleaning of the parks and monuments the government leaves themselves open to claims of negligence and lawsuits. Given the lawsuit happy US public it is a real concern

    2. It is illegal for the US government to actually spend money not authorized during this time frame. Those that authorize it can be held on criminal charges

    The Daily Dot - The government shutdown, explained like you're 5

    So keeping a park open for the public to come and see it is definitely not essential and could result in the agency managers being held on criminal charges. Having staff kept on for security would be considered essential and not see the managers put up for criminal charges

    What Happens During a Government Shutdown?


    So if the Obama admin authorized keeping the parks open, then the republican party/ controlled congress could have the administration brought on charges. Given how well the two get along I could see the republican congress doing just that. So in effect the Obama admin is following the letter of the law and wisely so
    OK again, how is somebody going to hurt themselves taking a picture?

    The taking of photographs was specifically mentioned as something that was not allowed. There could be no other reason other than thrying to make it hurt.

    Standing in one spot and clicking a picture is not a dangerous activity.

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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Are you sure we're talking about the same ADA? The ADA refers to the Americans with disabilities act. What are you talking about?
    Under Article I of the Constitution, “No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law.” This constitutional limitation is implemented by the federal Antideficiency Act (ADA), which makes it illegal for federal officials to spend money in excess of appropriations or to obligate the government to enter into contracts before an appropriation has been passed to pay for such a commitment.
    The Antideficiency Act

    The reason the national parks are shut down right now
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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    OK again, how is somebody going to hurt themselves taking a picture?

    The taking of photographs was specifically mentioned as something that was not allowed. There could be no other reason other than thrying to make it hurt.

    Standing in one spot and clicking a picture is not a dangerous activity.
    The park would be closed for a variety of reasons.

    First, general safety of the public. With no maintenance the chances of slips, trips or wild animal attacks go up, and leave the government open to lawsuits. Second protection of the federal lands. The would not have the same level of staff to watch out for vandalism and general property destruction. The would not be able to stop thugs from throwing garbage in the geyser or from illegal hunting. Shutting down access is realistically the easiest method of following the protection of federal lands aspect and limiting the liability of the government from lawsuit happy americans
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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The Antideficiency Act

    The reason the national parks are shut down right now
    Heh, nice, but it since it's passage the ADA most often refers to the Americans with disabilities act. Read your own link, among the exceptions is:

    ■Protection of federal lands, buildings, waterways, and other property of the U.S
    The only reason those parks are shut down is that Obama's admin wants Americans to feel the pain and pressure his opponents.

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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The park would be closed for a variety of reasons.

    First, general safety of the public. With no maintenance the chances of slips, trips or wild animal attacks go up, and leave the government open to lawsuits. Second protection of the federal lands. The would not have the same level of staff to watch out for vandalism and general property destruction. The would not be able to stop thugs from throwing garbage in the geyser or from illegal hunting. Shutting down access is realistically the easiest method of following the protection of federal lands aspect and limiting the liability of the government from lawsuit happy americans
    Your own link says that is not true.

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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The park would be closed for a variety of reasons.

    First, general safety of the public. With no maintenance the chances of slips, trips or wild animal attacks go up, and leave the government open to lawsuits. Second protection of the federal lands. The would not have the same level of staff to watch out for vandalism and general property destruction. The would not be able to stop thugs from throwing garbage in the geyser or from illegal hunting. Shutting down access is realistically the easiest method of following the protection of federal lands aspect and limiting the liability of the government from lawsuit happy americans
    We are talking about people that were already there when the park was closed. Why stop them from taking pictures?

    I think you know the answer, you just don't want to say it. You keep going back to protecting people from themselves.

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