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Thread: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Thankfully ernst, by the authority of A. Linclon and T.Roosevelt, which is why their faces are on Mt. Rushmore..Do you know the story behind the monument??
    Along with the greatest Federal landgrabber of all, T. Jefferson, and our First President.
    the Louisiana purchase, was a purchase from France for 15 million dollars, however the federal government did not take the land and put it under it's control.

    according to constitutional law, the federal government [congress] must get permission from a state for a federal buildings to exist in a state, and the federal government[congress] only has authority in a state over those federal buildings only and no where else.

    the constitution makes no mention of buying land from a state just to buy land and hold it, HOWEVER buying land from France is an a power of the federal government because anything international is federal power.....

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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    My brother once asked me what to expect with logging when going to Yellowstone/Grand Teton in the National Forests and 'near' their boundaries..
    With a wide-panorama, he saw the clear-cuts..
    Closer-up, he would see a thin strip of trees along the edge of a road with grotesque clear-cuts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    A boundry as far away as your backyard would be fine with me. The noise and the air pollution from the machinery and big trucks kicking up dust on dirt roads scarring of the land and the environmental impact of the workers and their housing needs ...yeah, they could ruin tourism to Arches and Canyonlands, no question about it.
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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    according to constitutional law, the federal government [congress] must get permission from a state for a federal buildings to exist in a state, and the federal government[congress] only has authority in a state over those federal buildings only and no where else.....[/B]
    Which came first out west, the Federal govt. or the States??
    Many Natl Parks came before states, along with their Federal military outposts.
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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Which came first out west, the Federal govt. or the States??
    Many Natl Parks came before states, along with their Federal military outposts.
    although you are correct when it comes to territories of the u.s...as when Yellowstone was created, however the federal government has created parks in established states, and as I stated from the constitution, no such power exist.

    Samuel Adams states that it a government building existing before the constitution was ratified, then it would still remain federal property to the new government.

    however again the constitution states that the federal government[congress] only has authority in states, where federal buildings are....or in case of parks like Yellowstone, that they have no authority over state or private property.

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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    although you are correct when it comes to territories of the u.s...as when Yellowstone was created, however the federal government has created parks in established states, and as I stated from the constitution, no such power exist.
    Are you saying that states rights are different before and after statehood??
    Samuel Adams states that it a government building existing before the constitution was ratified, then it would still remain federal property to the new government.
    Are you saying that Feds control some natl parks and not others; same with buildings??
    however again the constitution states that the federal government[congress] only has authority in states, where federal buildings are....or in case of parks like Yellowstone, that they have no authority over state or private property.
    As examples to disagree, what about Interstate roads--railroads--canals, Natural disasters, interstate commerce-three R's--roads, rails, rivers-
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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    France--Spain--Mexico--Russia--we've taken or swindled all of them for land--As with England--Manifest Destiny--GTF out of our hemisphere--the rough rider--I view states abusing their 'rights' and 'powers' with much more disdain than those Countries since this is Present Moment Awareness time.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the Louisiana purchase, was a purchase from France for 15 million dollars, however the federal government did not take the land and put it under it's control.

    according to constitutional law, the federal government [congress] must get permission from a state for a federal buildings to exist in a state, and the federal government[congress] only has authority in a state over those federal buildings only and no where else.

    the constitution makes no mention of buying land from a state just to buy land and hold it, HOWEVER buying land from France is an a power of the federal government because anything international is federal power.....
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Are you saying that states rights are different before and after statehood??-
    if its not a state, its a territory and the federal government has full federal authority over it, once it becomes a state it is sovereign, and controls it own lands.

    anything the federal government created in that state before it became a state, like a park or building is federal property.




    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Are you saying that Feds control some natl parks and not others; same with buildings??-
    saying that Yellowstone was created under a territory..[this gives the federal government full power to do as they wish], it is legal for the government to create it, however the government has no authority to create a park inside of a state, because the constitution states they can obtain land only for buildings and with the states approval.

    article 1 section 8 clause 17


    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    As examples to disagree, what about Interstate roads--railroads--canals, Natural disasters, interstate commerce-three R's--roads, rails, rivers-
    they can build post roads, railroads did not exist when the constitution was created, dams are not in the constitution.as to commerce in reading the constitution and the federalist papers the federal government has no authority over commerce inside a state, only between the states, or as the constitution states...among the states.

    for congress to have authority ,they must create an amendment.

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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Overall, great post..
    Several areas to multi-quote and it's getting late..
    I appreciate your thought and effort..
    National Parks and Lands are easily in the top 5 categories of what I love in life.
    I will repost on #117 tomorrow.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    if its not a state, its a territory and the federal government has full federal authority over it, once it becomes a state it is sovereign, and controls it own lands.

    anything the federal government created in that state before it became a state, like a park or building is federal property.

    saying that Yellowstone was created under a territory..[this gives the federal government full power to do as they wish], it is legal for the government to create it, however the government has no authority to create a park inside of a state, because the constitution states they can obtain land only for buildings and with the states approval.

    article 1 section 8 clause 17

    they can build post roads, railroads did not exist when the constitution was created, dams are not in the constitution.as to commerce in reading the constitution and the federalist papers the federal government has no authority over commerce inside a state, only between the states, or as the constitution states...among the states.

    for congress to have authority ,they must create an amendment.
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    ...unless they were federal lands to begin with, which is the way something becomes a park. If they were federal lands, its pretty much an act of Congress to make it a park. No state objects to just a thing as designating land as a national park means it becomes a tourist destination.
    Congress doesnt have the power to run parks, so its moot. The federal govt is allowed to have DC for the seat of the govt, purchase land from states for military structures, and make rules regarding the things they own. Thats it. Nothing about aquiring land from states for preservation or recreation. Utah was territory illegaly aquired during the MExican War, and then the people of Utah owned it. The federal govt did not own any of the land when it became a state. There were no parks.

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    Re: Utah national parks to open Saturday with state aid

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Congress doesnt have the power to run parks, so its moot. The federal govt is allowed to have DC for the seat of the govt, purchase land from states for military structures, and make rules regarding the things they own. Thats it. Nothing about aquiring land from states for preservation or recreation. Utah was territory illegaly aquired during the MExican War, and then the people of Utah owned it. The federal govt did not own any of the land when it became a state. There were no parks.
    No, but the federal government does, so its moot.

    Isn't all territory acquired via war illegally acquired?

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