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Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

ItAin'tFree said:
LOL. Now if you believe in freedom, you are irrational? You -ists take the cake.

For an encore what do you propose our government force our citizens to do next?
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Drink some water with it.
 
Cardinal said:
Post #821. In order to stick to the notion that "nothing has been worse since slavery" Itaintfree has effectively (but only in his own mind) redefined all tragedies since then to be "slavery." If that's the peg you want to hang your coat on, have at it. I can't stop you from destroying your own credibility if you're set on it.
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LOL. Twist, squirm, wiggle.

You are the one that tried to tie Dr Carsons remarks to events and world leaders who practiced slavery. All I have done is point out to you (and others) is that first it is slaves then comes war and murder, at least based on examples you provided.

Dr Carsons remarks were prefaced with "in Amercia" , you thought you would be slick and list worldwide events without thinking slaves were much involved in those events. Those heads of state didn't mind taking away individual freedom and liberty.

Obama doesn't either.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Well, since you have proven very well through your beyond ill informed positions that you cannot/do not want to see, I am sure you have been hearing lots of things... none of which seem anywhere closer to reality than what you cannot/do not want to see.
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meaning you can't support your case. The burden of proof is yours. And I've already shown both your reasoning and facts are flawed. :coffeepap
 
ItAin'tFree said:
LOL. Twist, squirm, wiggle.

You are the one that tried to tie Dr Carsons remarks to events and world leaders who practiced slavery. All I have done is point out to you (and others) is that first it is slaves then comes war and murder, at least based on examples you provided.

Dr Carsons remarks were prefaced with "in Amercia" , you thought you would be slick and list worldwide events without thinking slaves were much involved in those events. Those heads of state didn't mind taking away individual freedom and liberty.

Obama doesn't either.
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Well, like I said, it's your credibility. Feel free to keep pissing it away.
 
ItAin'tFree said:
LOL. Those troops didn't die for slavery, they died for freedom of the American people. Freedom that Obamadon'tcare takes away.

Hitler and the Emperor of Japan didn't mind having slaves listed on their resume. The knew how to exercise control of people to get what they wanted. Our government does too, Obamadon'tcare.
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ItAin'tFree said:
For an encore what do you propose our government force our citizens to do next?
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These comments weren't directed at me, but I have to ask, are you serious? It's so hard to tell. First of all, in regard to "forcing citizens" through the ACA: Americans elected Obama and their representatives when health care reform was a huge issue. In fact, many of Obama's supporters wanted far more complete health care reform including a public option. Obamacare doesn't force Americans to do anything except get coverage, in some cases get different coverage, or pay a fine. This went through the supreme court. Do you know who would disagree with you on this issue? The relatives I had who went to concentration camps. The immigrants I've met who lived under Stalin's rule. People who endured real pain, real bondage. They would regard your opinion as the ramblings of an extremist who doesn't know anything about true hardship and suffering. I would have to agree with them. If you respect the people who endured torture, stop making a $100 fine for not getting health care sound like being forcibly starved and beaten until you are so desperate you eat your own feces.

This is just a law. The American people supported their Democratic representatives, the President and congress passed the bill, the supreme court upheld it. If you disagree with it, get involved and talk about what's in it that you disagree with. Support your Republicans. Get them elected. Get the law changed by winning the next election. But you should stop insulting people who endured true suffering, because many of them are here, and many of them support Obamacare.
 
Mustachio said:
These comments weren't directed at me, but I have to ask, are you serious? It's so hard to tell. First of all, in regard to "forcing citizens" through the ACA: Americans elected Obama and their representatives when health care reform was a huge issue. In fact, many of Obama's supporters wanted far more complete health care reform including a public option. Obamacare doesn't force Americans to do anything except get coverage, in some cases get different coverage, or pay a fine.
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Ok, stop there...Your explanation of using the term that the administration, and demo's used to shove this down the throat of the American people is a lie...It is NOT a fine, because the only way they got this turd through the SCOTUS was to claim that it was a tax, and therefore gave them the right to lay and collect taxes. You can't have it both ways.

The immigrants I've met who lived under Stalin's rule. People who endured real pain, real bondage. They would regard your opinion as the ramblings of an extremist who doesn't know anything about true hardship and suffering. I would have to agree with them. If you respect the people who endured torture, stop making a $100 fine for not getting health care sound like being forcibly starved and beaten until you are so desperate you eat your own feces.
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So who here has done that? Your anecdotal ramblings are irrelevant anyway, because I could produce just as many people I know from the former Soviet Union block nations like E. Germany, or Romania that look at this and say absolutely it is shades of what they witnessed growing up, and thought they were escaping. Consider;

"Socialized Medicine is the keystone to the arch of the socialist state.” - Vladimir Lenin

This is just a law. The American people supported their Democratic representatives, the President and congress passed the bill...
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They crafted it without any bipartisan input, rammed it through in the middle of the night on a party line only vote, and no one had even read the bill to know what was truly in it....ie; Nancy Pelosi's comment about '...you have to pass the bill, to find out what is in the bill.'

It was a total con job on the American people.

...the supreme court upheld it.
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Correct, the supreme upheld that the law could be implemented under the ability to tax. However, you even in this thread attempt dishonest discourse of the law, calling it a "fine" instead of what it is, a tax.

And keep in mind that SC rulings have been overturned in the past, not to mention that y'all crafted such a monster of a bill in hopes of confusing the people, that there will be other challenges...

If you disagree with it, get involved and talk about what's in it that you disagree with.
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Oh we are doing that...And you liberal progressives can't stand it either...When this happens you go into pure Alinski mode, and attack, demonize, and mock, so even your statement here to 'get involved, and talk about it' is disingenuous ....

Support your Republicans. Get them elected.
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That is a whole other discussion, appropriate for another thread, however, I would say that Repubs that are out there now standing, and allowing themselves to be used by the likes of Reid, or Schumer for opportunities to undermine constitutional arguments, need to be primaried and booted from office. McCain, and Graham come to mind.

Get the law changed by winning the next election.
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That's the plan, and that scares the hell out of people like you.

But you should stop insulting people who endured true suffering, because many of them are here, and many of them support Obamacare.
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Fallacy. Appeal to authority is a fail. There are just as many here that consider what they see happening in America today under the authoritarian progressive Obama rule as a tragedy, and much like what they experienced under the rule of the Iron curtain.

However, what we were talking about is taxation as slavery, and I offer you this:

If one wants to stand on the U.S. Constitution as one's foundation, then the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution can be used as an ironclad argument against a forcible direct tax on the labor of a human being. The 13th Amendment says: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for a crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation."

The 13th Amendment makes it very clear that we cannot legally or Constitutionally be forced into involuntary servitude.

As such, we maintain that a human being has an inalienable right to own 100 % of Person and 100% of Labor, including control over how the fruits of his actions are dispensed. A human being has an inalienable right to control the compensation for his labor while in the act of any service in the marketplace – e.g., digging ditches, flipping burgers, word-processing documents for a company, programming computers, preparing court cases, performing surgery, preaching sermons, or writing novels.

A forcible direct tax on the labor of a human being is in violation of this right as stated in the 13th Amendment. If we work 40 hours a week, and another entity forcibly conscripts 25 % of our compensation, then we argue that we have been forced into involuntary servitude – slavery – for 10 of those 40 hours, and we were free for the other 30. If we could freely choose to work just the 30 hours and decline to work the 10 hours, then our wills would not be violated and the 13th Amendment would be honored.

However, Congress, the IRS and their Internal Revenue Code (IRC) lay direct claim to those ten hours (or some stated percentage) without our consent.

In other words, in a free and just society, a society in which there is no slavery of any form:

Human beings are not forced to work for free, in whole or in part.
Human beings are not slaves to anything or anyone.
Anyone who attempts to force us to work for free, without compensation, has violated our rights under the 13th Amendment.
This, of course, is not the state of affairs in the United States of America at the turn of the millennium, in which:

We labor involuntarily for at least four months out of every year for the government.
We are, therefore, slaves for that period of time.
The government, having forced us to work for free, without compensation, has violated the 13th Amendment.
Of course, what follows from all this discussion is that there is an issue about slavery. But it is not the issue politically correct historians and activists are raising. As for reparations, we suspect many of us might be willing to let bygones be bygones if we never had to pay out another dime to the IRS. We often read about how great the economy is supposedly doing. Just imagine how it would flourish if human beings owned 100% of Person and Labor, and could voluntarily invest the capital we currently pay to the government in our businesses, our homes, our schools, and our communities!

For those of you who believe that the 16th Amendment repealed, replaced, modified, appended, amended or superceded the 13th Amendment, you are mistaken. For an Amendment to be changed, in any way, there must be an Amendment that emphatically declares this action. There is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that alters the efficacy of the 13th Amendment in even the slightest way. The 16th merely allowed the government to enter the “National Social Benefits” business where it finances the system with the mandatory contributions of voluntary participants. While all Americans certainly understand the concept of mandatory contributions, they fail to understand the concept of voluntary participation, largely due to a very effective marketing campaign on the part of our central government for several generations now since the Great Depression. The 16th gave the government the power to legally enter a contractual relationship with its citizens wherein the citizen contributes a portion of his labor in exchange for social benefits. In order for both Amendments to peacefully coexist, the contractual relationships in the system created by the 16th cannot be forced upon the citizens. For to do so would be to contradict the 13th completely.

Is the Income Tax a Form of Slavery? – LewRockwell.com
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Now, instead of pure talking point pablum, you will hopefully be able to offer a cogent argument...Good day sir.
 
Mustachio said:
These comments weren't directed at me, but I have to ask, are you serious? It's so hard to tell. First of all, in regard to "forcing citizens" through the ACA: Americans elected Obama and their representatives when health care reform was a huge issue. In fact, many of Obama's supporters wanted far more complete health care reform including a public option. Obamacare doesn't force Americans to do anything except get coverage, in some cases get different coverage, or pay a fine. This went through the supreme court. Do you know who would disagree with you on this issue? The relatives I had who went to concentration camps. The immigrants I've met who lived under Stalin's rule. People who endured real pain, real bondage. They would regard your opinion as the ramblings of an extremist who doesn't know anything about true hardship and suffering. I would have to agree with them. If you respect the people who endured torture, stop making a $100 fine for not getting health care sound like being forcibly starved and beaten until you are so desperate you eat your own feces.

This is just a law. The American people supported their Democratic representatives, the President and congress passed the bill, the supreme court upheld it. If you disagree with it, get involved and talk about what's in it that you disagree with. Support your Republicans. Get them elected. Get the law changed by winning the next election. But you should stop insulting people who endured true suffering, because many of them are here, and many of them support Obamacare.
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No, the question should be are you serious?

Gotta love this part. "Obamacare doesn't force Americans to do anything except get coverage, in some cases get different coverage, or pay a fine. But the key word you used was "force". You got that exactly right. This is a gem as well. " If you respect the people who endured torture, stop making a $100 fine for not getting health care sound like being forcibly starved and beaten until you are so desperate you eat your own feces." Once again, the evil forces in government didn't start out with those kind of programs. They took small steps forcing people to do things before they took the big ones.

And get real about any former slaves of government goons from yesteryear. You are not their spokesman. Yet a person can watch show after show on the likes of the history channel any day of the week, and listen to them. None of them can hardly believe what it turned into, even though they lived through it, and it all happened one step at a time. That's their words, not yours. When people allow their government to force them into things, that same government will only get embolden to take additional steps. History points that out, even with our own government.

The only people I might have insulted are those that support taking freedoms and liberty away from people. I have no problem with that, they do.
 
j-mac said:
"Socialized Medicine is the keystone to the arch of the socialist state.” - Vladimir Lenin
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This sounds like one of those too-good-to-be-true quotes, so I'm calling straight-up bull**** on that.
 
Cardinal said:
This sounds like one of those too-good-to-be-true quotes, so I'm calling straight-up bull**** on that.
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Aw, what's the matter? Not liking who you are realizing what is laying next to you in bed? Don't like that one? How about this one...

"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation."

or this one

"The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them in parliament."

or this one

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."

or maybe this one

"The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency."

I could go on, and on....Face facts.
 
j-mac said:
Aw, what's the matter? Not liking who you are realizing what is laying next to you in bed? Don't like that one? How about this one...

"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation."

or this one

"The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them in parliament."

or this one

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."

or maybe this one

"The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency."

I could go on, and on....Face facts.
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Not pictured above: citation for the phony quote I'm calling bull**** on.
 
Cardinal said:
Not pictured above: citation for the phony quote I'm calling bull**** on.
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Ok, you raised a good question, so I did a little research myself, and the best I can find is this....

by:
Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
[Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov] (1870 - 1924), First Leader of the Soviet Union
Source:
No record of Lenin speaking or writing this has been found. The quote first appeared in Lawrence Sullivan's 'The Case Against Socialized Medicine' (1948) and later appeared in a pamphlet circulated in huge quantities by the American Medical Association entitled 'The Voluntary Way is the American Way.'

Vladimir Ilyich Lenin Quote - Liberty Quotes Blog
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So, I will go back and see if I can recant the attribution of Lenin's name to the quote, however, I stand by the underlying principle of the quote itself, whomever said that.
 
Note to any mod reading here, if you could please go back to post #833 and remove the "- Vladimir Lenin" from the post and change it to "- Author Unknown" it would be appreciated...

Thank you.
 
j-mac said:
Ok, you raised a good question, so I did a little research myself, and the best I can find is this....



So, I will go back and see if I can recant the attribution of Lenin's name to the quote, however, I stand by the underlying principle of the quote itself, whomever said that.
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Good man.

You kind of took the wind out of my sales, though. I was all set to unleash my own quotes:

"Utterly crucial to the well being of the state is a well-cowed populace, fearful in mind and lacking all avenue to a publicly funded health care system."

-Adolph Hitler.

"If there is but one threat to power and stability it is a healthful people who can turn outward from their own meager plight and demand better. Such it is that a patient protection and affordable care act can never be allowed to pass."

-Pol Pot

"Conservatism is awesome."

-Satan, Lord of Darkness and the Fallen One.
 
Cardinal said:
Good man.

You kind of took the wind out of my sales, though. I was all set to unleash my own quotes:

"Utterly crucial to the well being of the state is a well-cowed populace, fearful in mind and lacking all avenue to a publicly funded health care system."

-Adolph Hitler.

"If there is but one threat to power and stability it is a healthful people who can turn outward from their own meager plight and demand better. Such it is that a patient protection and affordable care act can never be allowed to pass."

-Pol Pot

"Conservatism is awesome."

-Satan, Lord of Darkness and the Fallen One.
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:lamo I deserved that I guess....

But there is much more meat to post 833, I hope we can get beyond this mistake of mine to that.
 
j-mac said:
:lamo I deserved that I guess....

But there is much more meat to post 833, I hope we can get beyond this mistake of mine to that.
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That you stand by the content of the false quote?
 
Boo Radley said:
That you stand by the content of the false quote?
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Get beyond the silliness Joe. I retracted the attribution, and even showed where the quote came from. So, as to the substance of what the quote puts forth? Yes, I stand behind that, although I am sure Jon Stewart would disagree...;)
 
j-mac said:
Get beyond the silliness Joe. I retracted the attribution, and even showed where the quote came from. So, as to the substance of what the quote puts forth? Yes, I stand behind that, although I am sure Jon Stewart would disagree...;)
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J, I realize you retracted. My question was about the meat. You both agreed it was a false quote, which is why I noted it.

However, no reasonable person would stand behind it. It's all part of the propaganda you buy into and not anything born of factual and provable information.
 
Boo Radley said:
J, I realize you retracted. My question was about the meat. You both agreed it was a false quote, which is why I noted it.
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No, it wasn't a "false quote", only falsely attributed....I provided the correct author as far as we know to whom the quote belongs...

However, no reasonable person would stand behind it. It's all part of the propaganda you buy into and not anything born of factual and provable information.
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This part is just more nonsense you usually throw out there to deflect.
 
j-mac said:
No, it wasn't a "false quote", only falsely attributed....I provided the correct author as far as we know to whom the quote belongs...



This part is just more nonsense you usually throw out there to deflect.
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If you don't know who said, you don't know if it's a quote from anyone who should be quoted. The false part is the attribution.

And no, reasonable people don't see everything as socialism. The old, tired, worn out tactic of calling things socialism really is part of the propaganda. I don't have to define propaganda do I?
 
Boo Radley said:
If you don't know who said, you don't know if it's a quote from anyone who should be quoted. The false part is the attribution.
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why are you belaboring the point? I already pulled the attribution, and I went one step further to post where it did come from...So, instead of making a point that is already long settled, I'd say move on.

And no, reasonable people don't see everything as socialism.
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Who does that? That is your own problem with people that disagree with you. No one has ever said that "everything is socialism" as it pertains to Obama. So stop already, it is truly tiresome.

The old, tired, worn out tactic of calling things socialism really is part of the propaganda.
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It is proper to call things what they are.

I don't have to define propaganda do I?
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We'd prefer you stick to the thread topic. Thanks.
 
j-mac said:
why are you belaboring the point? I already pulled the attribution, and I went one step further to post where it did come from...So, instead of making a point that is already long settled, I'd say move on.
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Because you keep acting like you don't get the point.

Who does that? That is your own problem with people that disagree with you. No one has ever said that "everything is socialism" as it pertains to Obama. So stop already, it is truly tiresome.
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Clearly you and others tend to do that a lot. How many socalism post do we get?


It is proper to call things what they are.
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But you're not doing that.
 
Boo Radley said:
Because you keep acting like you don't get the point.
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If I didn't get the point, then why would I have pulled the attribution? Gheeze! :roll:

Clearly you and others tend to do that a lot. How many socalism post do we get?
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When policies seem socialistic to me, I will call them that....As for "a lot"? I don't think so...I call things what they are. Progressive.

But you're not doing that.
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Oh, but I am...I am just not calling them what you wish I would so you're upset with that....I can't help you there.
 
Equivilating Obamacare to Slavery is the pinnacle of ignorance and dishonours the memory of those who suffered under slavery in American history and suffer from Modern Slavery today.

What I absolutely love here, is how many conservatives skewers Blacks for bringing up Slavery today when it comes to issues with the black community and in regards to any kind of reparations...

But magically it's allowed to be brought up in this context.

And as my esteemed colleague pointed out, to ignore other significant events that caused massive suffering to Americans, such as WW1, WW2, Vietnam etc. is also an insult to the lives that were lost and affected by those events.
 
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