• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Dr. Carson: Obamacare The Worst Thing That Has Happened Since Slavery

Objective Voice said:
Except if you do have a car and get caught driving without auto insurance you DO pay a steep fine.
Click to expand...

But that's not even true. You can drive a car all day long on private property without insurance.


Except if your house catches fire and it is determined that the smoke detector was purposely disabled, the insurance company won't pay the claim and you can be held liable for destruction of property (at the least) or reckless endangerment (at the most).
Click to expand...

Insurance is not the government. You are talking about the condition of a contract, not the law.

You're right, but just as the burden of not having insurance is passed on to those who do have insurance, such is the case when the person who jury-rigged his electrical outlets passes on that risk and financial burden onto the new homeowner. (Or course, the counter-argument would be "have a home inspection performed" except home inspections DON'T look at wall sockets; they only gauge the condition and functionality of the electrical circuit breaker box.)
Click to expand...

Well, you are wrong about the home inspection. Most home inspectors do test the outlets for ground. However, when an individual buys a home, they buy it as is and all defects are not the responsibility of any previous owner.

Wild analogy here since only a handful of people go on to become commercial (or private) aircraft pilots. You're really grasping at straws on this one.
Click to expand...

Duece was grasping at straws buy telling us everyone has to have pilot's certificate. I'm just illustrating the absurd by being absurd.
 
ksu_aviator said:
Duece was grasping at straws buy telling us everyone has to have pilot's certificate. I'm just illustrating the absurd by being absurd.
Click to expand...

Deuce said nothing of the sort you liar.

You, on the other hand, seem to think income is required by law. (because that's a condition of the Obamacare tax penalty)
 
Perotista said:
I agree that there has been a line crossed here, that the federal government can now forced its citizens to buy commercial products. A first or a first as far as I know. But comparing Obamacare to slavery is pure poppycock. Asinine may be a better word. This is the type of hyperbole one would expect from the Democrats in Congress. The if you don't pass this legislation, your grandma and kids will die because of republican cruelty and lack of compassion. What in the world has Washington become? I'll tell you, Washington has become a town of blithering idiots, on both sides of the aisle.
Click to expand...

Maybe we can dissect this a little further. You have insurance companies and government policies that strong arm DR's through contractual agreements into taking reimbursements for services at a percentage of their 100% market value. This was fine up until now because the Dr.'s could choose to not participate in the insurance market. Now that every citizen is forced into the insurance market, there is no customer left that does not participate in that market. Therefore Dr.'s will be forced to supply their labor and expertise at the rate that insurance companies decide. Insurance companies, backed by the force of government enslave a portion of the Dr's labor. This is the intentional plan to reduce cost, while supporting capped profits for insurance companies.

Problem is older Doc's will retire, and young potential Doc's have limited incentives.
 
Deuce said:
There is an act: working a job that provides sufficient income.

The Obamacare tax penalty isn't different from an income tax in any manner of substance.
Click to expand...

Non workers and workers that do not have sufficient income must also obtain insurance. The penalty (not a true tax), is different.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Wow, little thin on your history there.

First, slavery has not been limited to just one race, that is to ignore all but American, and substantially more, South American history. Slavery was, with perhaps the exception of Antarctica, a world wide long lived phenomenon. All races have pretty much been slaves and had slaves...so let us get a bit more realistic, could we?

The North also benefited beyond the actual slave trade, shut off by the Constitution [except internally], and by law in 1808, twenty years after the Constitution was adopted. The North was mainly responsible for the international portion of the "carrying trade"...Cotton was our #1 export back then...Britain and France would buy all we could grow, so the North risked a lot for the end of the slave trade as well as did the South.

Yes the south benefited the most, however only 10% of all southerners owned slaves...means 90%, the overwhelming majority, did not.

Slavery is not just about work without pay, though many of us are subjected to an almost half slavery just with the amount, total, taken from us by government annually, it is also about not owning your own body. With government ultimately in control of health care, that is just another addition on the the straws weighted upon the camels back...government telling us which oils we can use in some parts, telling us how large a soda we can have in others, light bulbs, more and more regulations, stipulations and add political correctness...no whip marks on my back, many that offend and crack at my values, morals, ethics and principles...
Click to expand...

Since the good Dr.'s comments were implied to refer strictly to slavery in the U.S., I limited my commentary to the north American slave trade. For you to play ignorant on this issue and attempt to make it into something it is not says a lot about just how far some people like yourself will go to :spin: the issue their way just to make themselves look more authentic and less foolish.

As for your North -vs- South argument on the slave trade, I already eluded to how the north benefitted off of slavery indirectly through import/export. Why you saw fit to try to expand on what was an otherwise well established point only plays to your attempt to backpedal and reset.

To your last point, "government owning your body", really? So, saying to people, "get health care so that you can better monitor your health and, thereby, be able to take better care of your body should you get sick or injured" is a bad thing?

Really?
 
Deuce said:
Deuce said nothing of the sort you liar.

You, on the other hand, seem to think income is required by law. (because that's a condition of the Obamacare tax penalty)
Click to expand...

Ok...so then you are saying that children are now required to produce income? Because the IRS says children must have insurance.

Questions and Answers on the Individual Shared Responsibility Provision

9. Are children subject to the individual shared responsibility provision?
Yes. Each child must have minimum essential coverage or qualify for an exemption for each month in the calendar year. Otherwise, the adult or married couple who can claim the child as a dependent for federal income tax purposes will owe a payment.

10. Are senior citizens subject to the individual shared responsibility provision?
Yes. Senior citizens must have minimum essential coverage or qualify for an exemption for each month in a calendar year. Senior citizens will have minimum essential coverage for every month they are enrolled in Medicare.

11. Are all individuals living in the United States subject to the individual shared responsibility provision?
All U.S. citizens are subject to the individual shared responsibility provision as are all permanent residents and all foreign nationals who are in the United States long enough during a calendar year to qualify as resident aliens for tax purposes. Foreign nationals who live in the United States for a short enough period that they do not become resident aliens for federal income tax purposes are not subject to the individual shared responsibility payment even though they may have to file a U.S. income tax return. The IRS has more information available on when a foreign national becomes a resident alien for federal income tax purposes.
Click to expand...
 
johndylan1 said:
Non workers and workers that do not have sufficient income must also obtain insurance. The penalty (not a true tax), is different.
Click to expand...

Yes, but they can apply for health care credits provided they fall at or below the federal poverty limit. So, no penalty for low-income individuals who quality. Try again.
 
Objective Voice said:
Yes, but they can apply for health care credits provided they fall at or below the federal poverty limit. So, no penalty for low-income individuals who quality. Try again.
Click to expand...

Actually, those that are low income and don't have insurance are subject to the same tax penalty. They are required to get insurance, even if it is free and even if they don't earn any money.

These liberal lies needs to stop now.
 
johndylan1 said:
Problem is older Doc's will retire, and young potential Doc's have limited incentives.
Click to expand...

Younger and mid-age Doctors, especially many Foreign Doctors, have plenty of incentives, like being Dr. Feelgood??
Why does BigPharma get a pass here??
Many famalies can attest to an older parent being drugged to death, though we were lucky..117 Sodium count on her Meds.
 
Objective Voice said:
Yes, but they can apply for health care credits provided they fall at or below the federal poverty limit. So, no penalty for low-income individuals who quality. Try again.
Click to expand...

Unless they choose not to apply. Try again.
 
ksu_aviator said:
He is one of, if not the, top Constitutional scholar in this country.
Click to expand...

LOL no. No, he's not. Please provide some sort of evidence to support this nonsensical statement.
 
No wonder the Dems wanted that Medical Device Tax, another huge cave by Obama..
76 Senators bought-and-paid-for by the Medical Industry.
Deuce said:
Or the fact that a 10,000% markup exists for certain medical devices.
Click to expand...
 
Kobie said:
That's utterly absurd. Ben Carson is a putz.
Click to expand...

What's utterly absurd is the lack of understanding that the government forcing people to pay money to private entities is tantamount to slavery. Any perceived justification is relativistic twaddle.
 
johndylan1 said:
It has to do with intellectual capacity. Not all IQ's are equal. The fact that so many fall for slick political marketing and buy in to a political philosophy isn't a mark of correctness or intelligence. Being able to understand the complexity of the brain is however a mark or real intelligence, and therefore shows a capacity to understand political philosophy, rather than being a hoodwinked stooge of the left.
Click to expand...

SHORTER JOHNDYLAN1: "Only conservatives are smart."

I've read some stupid stuff on this forum, and your post is among the stupidest.
 
johndylan1 said:
Maybe we can dissect this a little further. You have insurance companies and government policies that strong arm DR's through contractual agreements into taking reimbursements for services at a percentage of their 100% market value. This was fine up until now because the Dr.'s could choose to not participate in the insurance market. Now that every citizen is forced into the insurance market, there is no customer left that does not participate in that market. Therefore Dr.'s will be forced to supply their labor and expertise at the rate that insurance companies decide. Insurance companies, backed by the force of government enslave a portion of the Dr's labor. This is the intentional plan to reduce cost, while supporting capped profits for insurance companies.

Problem is older Doc's will retire, and young potential Doc's have limited incentives.
Click to expand...

Between the wife and me, 4 of the doctors we see, 2 have decided to retire and 2 have decided to go back home to their country or another country to practice. The reason they cited was Obamacare, so it has already started. So the ACA is suppose to add 20-30 million to the roles while the number of doctors shrink. If you thought VA had long lines and long waits, that is about to happen to all of us.

The problem with the ACA as it is with any major legislation passed is congress assumes people, business, corporations, providers etc will continue doing the same thing they have always done although the rules of the game has change. People, providers, business, etc will all adjust to the new rules and do what is best for them, their actions will not be as congress thought, planned and theorized they would be.

I understand this, but how good or how bad the ACA will end up being is not known yet. Time will tell and the indication at this point is not good. But a few adjustments to the law might change some of that. That is if those adjustments are allowed to be made. Time will tell.
 
a351 said:
His intellectual abilities pertaining to medicine are beyond question. His political philosophy thus far has proven to be absolutely cartoonish. Not all who are successful in other venues have a firm grasp on political or historical reality. Donald Trump immediately comes to mind.
Click to expand...

Just like Obama might be a great community organizer, but he's a buffoon of a president.
 
Kobie said:
SHORTER JOHNDYLAN1: "Only conservatives are smart."

I've read some stupid stuff on this forum, and your post is among the stupidest.
Click to expand...

Not at all, I appreciate a good reasoned response to any argument coming from anywhere on the political spectrum. I was referring specifically to emotionally based, uninformed responses coming from hoodwinked stooges. Your comments rise to that level as is evidenced above.
 
He's a homophobe because of his religion, plus he belongs to a church that believes earth is 6000 years old.

Does not believe in evolution because of comical objections disputed by a quick google.


So this is not really news, dumb indoctrinated people generally say dumb things like that.
 
johndylan1 said:
Not at all, I appreciate a good reasoned response to any argument coming from anywhere on the political spectrum. I was referring specifically to emotionally based, uninformed responses coming from hoodwinked stooges. Your comments rise to that level as is evidenced above.
Click to expand...

The idea that a brain surgeon is somehow more capable of understanding political thought is preposterous. And your "hoodwinked stooge of the left" comment clearly indicates that you feel that anyone not of your political persuasion is less intelligent by default.
 
Perotista said:
Between the wife and me, 4 of the doctors we see, 2 have decided to retire and 2 have decided to go back home to their country or another country to practice. The reason they cited was Obamacare, so it has already started. So the ACA is suppose to add 20-30 million to the roles while the number of doctors shrink. If you thought VA had long lines and long waits, that is about to happen to all of us.

The problem with the ACA as it is with any major legislation passed is congress assumes people, business, corporations, providers etc will continue doing the same thing they have always done although the rules of the game has change. People, providers, business, etc will all adjust to the new rules and do what is best for them, their actions will not be as congress thought, planned and theorized they would be.

I understand this, but how good or how bad the ACA will end up being is not known yet. Time will tell and the indication at this point is not good. But a few adjustments to the law might change some of that. That is if those adjustments are allowed to be made. Time will tell.
Click to expand...

I agree with you here, but this you have described is really the greater problem of leftist philosophy. People adjust. Market forces and individual self interest responds to policy in unforeseen ways and the market continues create inequities. And that continues, unless and until enough force is applied in order to completely squash market responses. This has historically been the habit of authoritarian governments, and leads to massive oppression. Here in the US we have avoided this through protecting free markets allowing and ebb and flow to policy which also allows us to roll with the punches so-to-speak. Now, however we are being boxed in by our first authoritarian directive from the left.
 
johndylan1 said:
I agree with you here, but this you have described is really the greater problem of leftist philosophy. People adjust. Market forces and individual self interest responds to policy in unforeseen ways and the market continues create inequities. And that continues, unless and until enough force is applied in order to completely squash market responses. This has historically been the habit of authoritarian governments, and leads to massive oppression. Here in the US we have avoided this through protecting free markets allowing and ebb and flow to policy which also allows us to roll with the punches so-to-speak. Now, however we are being boxed in by our first authoritarian directive from the left.
Click to expand...

Ask the millions of people who couldn't get health coverage how that whole "rolling with the punches" thing went for them.

I've generally found that the frequency of the use of the word "left," "liberal" or "leftist" in someone's post almost directly correlates with how often they are completely wrong.
 
Wiseone said:
dust-bowl-cause-1.jpg


great-depression2soup-line.jpg


At least they didn't have to worry about Obamacare.
Click to expand...

It's a good thing, too, because they wouldn't have been able to afford it.
 
Kobie said:
The idea that a brain surgeon is somehow more capable of understanding political thought is preposterous. And your "hoodwinked stooge of the left" comment clearly indicates that you feel that anyone not of your political persuasion is less intelligent by default.
Click to expand...

I stand by my assessment of intellectual capacity being important for the understanding of any subject. Dr. Carson hasn't only had his nose in a medical journal, he has indeed applied himself to the study of political philosophy, which he clearly understands based on his articulation of the subject. Dismissing his explanations based on one's own political bias is telling. Secondly, The fact that you do not have the capacity to understand that "hoodwinked stooge of the left" isn't necessarily a statement applicable to all leftists. Some of you actually believe it, amazingly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom